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Post by seenvic on May 20, 2010 8:08:15 GMT -5
Response: Bill,
Keith and Libby are both out, but next week I will see if we have any extras, I was planning to get one up to the north trailhead. I really have yet to see the ones on south end used that much, except during the IMBA event. However if I have them we will put them down there. That area of the old road way is a good place. Thanks,
Glen Kansanback
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Post by seenvic on May 20, 2010 8:07:48 GMT -5
Perhaps the best discussion this board has ever had.
Too busy to talk right now. Will later.
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Post by seenvic on May 19, 2010 21:39:17 GMT -5
At the Summit there were large crowds of riders at FATS. Crowds I'd never seen before and likely won't until Augusta host the Olympics. So each loop was running a specific direction each day. The upside to this was I felt like I didn't have to worry about riders coming the other way. This was nice and I didn't see this benefit coming. I don't have alot of experience with directional trails, and have always somewhat resisted this idea. But now that I have ridden FATS under those conditions, I may rethink it. Is it a solution looking for a problem, at FATS? Are head-ons a major problem at FATS?....I dunno. But riding hard thinking no one (should be) coming the other way was nice. I would think it would work with odd days being CCW and even days being CW on all the loops. It is not without downsides, but is worth discussing. Any thoughts on this?
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Post by seenvic on May 19, 2010 21:25:03 GMT -5
I've always been a strong CCW lean on all the loops except Tower. I'm 50/50 on it.
But during the Summit I rode Great Wall CW a few times and loved it. I thought it was easier that direction. The big DH CW used to seem to me to have "pointy" rollers. Over the years these have worn down and rounded off and ride better for me.
Riding the trails the "other" way explains some of the strange lines I see out there.
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Post by seenvic on May 19, 2010 13:44:24 GMT -5
sent this today.
Glen, Do you (USFS) have any picnic tables you could move to FATS?
Seen some request lately on our forum for these. If you have some at another site that aren't used much, can about 6 or so go down there?
Bill
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Post by seenvic on May 19, 2010 13:38:59 GMT -5
We don't close FATS much this time of year. We just post that it is wet and to ride elsewhere. If enough folks ride FATS anyway, we will start closing it 12 months a year or simply give up and not close it at all.
All of our trails should be good to go for you, except the newest section of Bartram. Unfortunately, this is right where you are camping. But the new section of Bartram should be avoided when wet as it brand new and still setting up.
You have a really good attitude and I wish more folks would police themselves as well as you do. It is difficult sometimes to not reason that it is only me and how much damage can I do. Our problem is that FATS can draw hundreds of "just me" riders. Who collectively are the problem if the tread is soft/wet.
Specifically, I'd ride Modoc, Turkey Creek, Old Bartram, Keg Creek and or the Long Cane Horse Trail if you think FATS will be too soft to ride. None of these draw a critical mass of riders who collectively reach a tipping point of too much traffic if wet.
All that said, if it is raining cats and dogs.....go home and don't ride. But I don't need to tell you that.
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Post by seenvic on May 19, 2010 13:28:08 GMT -5
WOW! Glad you ok.
Get a new helmet. That one is done.
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Post by seenvic on May 18, 2010 16:41:09 GMT -5
I am not surprised by this report. It is what I figured. That is alot of trail, no matter how flat it may be.
I can feel the pain just thinking about riding the whole thing.
But since no one has ever done it, it would be a cool thing to be the first one to do it.
Having said that, I may have to settle for being the first person to hear about someone else being the first to do it.
I'd like to set a shuttle and do it one way, from West Dam to Mistletoe. For my current fitness level, I think I could do that without much problem and could prolly even ride fast and not have to pace it out to be sure to finish.
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Post by seenvic on May 18, 2010 14:08:00 GMT -5
Camped at Petersburg this weekend. Rode it, the New Bartram, Wildwood, Keg. Fun stuff all. Keg put the brakes on us. Awesome ride though. Just slowed us a tad. A couple of non-riders (trees) there. A rider or two also. Enjoyed the trail. A lot. Thanks for all the efforts of keeping it ridable, and for all the bridges. The sweat and tears are appreciated. I was toast by the time we got back to site 48. Toast is an understatement. I hurt. Carbo loading fixed the issue. That and a low country boil. MD How did this ride compare to the Dark Star Loop in terms of time spent riding, difficulty, enjoyment? Or just the basics...how far was it and how long did it take?
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Post by seenvic on May 18, 2010 13:55:40 GMT -5
nope the smc was a race with different classes and awards and all. The 49er was just a ride tho. Ah, that's right. I did the 49er. So SMC is the Dark Star loop? Yes. SMC was run over the Dark Star Loop.
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Post by seenvic on May 17, 2010 16:00:41 GMT -5
The fishing gig for kids was May 8th at Lick Fork.
Not sure of other fishing events there.
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Post by seenvic on May 17, 2010 15:30:14 GMT -5
I read where Summit visitors LOVED the trails at HKSP. Said they the trails were in great shape.
Not sure of the experience level of the OP, but if FATS is your gage of what a "trail" is supposed to be like.....you need to reset your gage. I may be way off base here, and if so, I am sorry.
FATS is the exception to most trails. It gets alot of care. It stays closed when it's really wet and the leaves are not on the trees to remove this wetness from the ground. It was buit with machines, so the tread is a little smoother and wider. It's corridor is wider, so the vegetation can be cut back further. And people actually work on it in large and small numbers. Marco takes care of the GW Loop like it is his backyard. Others must be clipping here and there with hand trimmers.
Very little (almost none) of this is happening at the other trails (like HKSP).
So if one spends a good deal of time riding FATS, and then goes out to ride another trail....well it can be very different. But I think what you would find is that FATS is the outlier, and the conditions at HKSP are the norm (for a mtb trail).
I'll close with this.
Yes I will volunteer to work on the trails. I will run a DR and organize work so others can spend their time productively. I'll focus on Wine Creek as that is part of the SMC and something I love to work on.
Again, if I am way off base on the OP's baseline of what a trail is typically like, I am sorry.
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Post by seenvic on May 17, 2010 15:15:16 GMT -5
I live in Upstate SC and have only spent one day on my bike at FATS. I want to do a weekend and camp at Petersburg Campground. While there I will ride Bartram in addition to the trails at FATS. Can anyone tell me the trail mileage from Petersburg to West Dam? According to the map I got online, it is marked with yellow blazes. And how about the lengths of Lake Springs and Secondary Trail? Finally, how do of those three trails compare to those at FATS? Many thanks. P'burg to West Dam. Aprox 7 miles. (per my memory) P'burg to WWPark. Aprox 9.2 miles (per Mark Hanna's bike computer). This is the new section of trail just built. Lake Springs and Secondary Trail? Not sure what you mean by this. I think the Lake Springs Loops are about 3ish miles, total. Unclear what you mean by Secondary Trail. If one lives in the mtns, ALL the trails down here are "pedal pedal" (one has to pedal alot). But for a local rider, Bartram is more pedal pedal than FATS. These are fun trails to ride. I'd also recommend the Long Cane Horse Trail for your visit. It's up near Abbeville/Greenwood and is awesome. You will be well served to have a local guide on the LCHT. Let me know if you are interested and I'll see if I can get the locals up there to show you around.
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Post by seenvic on May 17, 2010 15:05:46 GMT -5
That was funny. Except the part about two "old" dudes! If I remember to, I'll look up that ride in my log and see who the other old guy was.
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Post by seenvic on May 17, 2010 13:12:07 GMT -5
Dustin is right about not chugging just before you take off.
I gave this some more thought. You are about where I was in 1991. I was 25 and just starting to ride. My first ride around the loop at Horn Creek about killed me. I recall riding Turkey Creek next. I turned around at the 2.5ish mile point (this is right above the creek, just above where you have that really big tree across the trail right now) and about not making it back to the car.
I've always remembered this ride at Horn Creek not long after I got started riding. A friend of friend (who can actually ride) joins us. He proceeds to drop us, come back to us, drop us, etc.....I had never seen someone ride so fast and effortlessly. What I remember about the ride was when we got back after one loop around Horn Creek, he says, "So, y'all ready to ride one the other direction?" I had never given that a moment's thought. Especially this moment. Me and my buddy told him he was nuts, and there was no way we could ride another lap.
Man, that was a long time ago. Stick with it, and in 19 years you will be the one dolling out this info.
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Post by seenvic on May 17, 2010 12:14:31 GMT -5
I am pretty hot natured anyway. 70 degrees and higher and I am sweating just sitting outside. I think it was mid 80's yesterday. Im about to buy a camelbak so hydration shouldnt be an issue after that. 100 ounces should suffice on a two hour ride. That is a good step. But I am talking about getting hydrated before the ride starts. Make sure you have had plenty of water before you get on the bike. And you gotta ride more than once a week to build endurance. Once you get it, you can ride once a week and keep it. But you gotta get it first.
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Post by seenvic on May 17, 2010 9:20:24 GMT -5
Make sure when you ride, you are hydrated. Nothing puts a stop on me like dehydration. About 99% of the "bad" rides I do is because I am dehyrated when I start and it gets worse as I ride.
LSD is also good. Long Slow Duration rides will build your endurance. Too much effort during the ride will hamper the effects of the LSD rides. These are sometimes best done alone as others may not want to go this easy and be out this long. But these are the key to riding staying on the bike a good part of the day.
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Post by seenvic on May 16, 2010 8:56:57 GMT -5
That would be great. Should be good to go as it drys out.
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Post by seenvic on May 15, 2010 19:14:39 GMT -5
Where do you want them? How many?
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Post by seenvic on May 15, 2010 11:29:26 GMT -5
Met a friend from Greenwood about 9am, and was on the bikes about 9:20. Trail starts wide and gets narrower as you go. Mostly it's 4 wheeler width, with good flow and technical features likes rocks, roots and logs.
It was muddy where it was muddy. Prolly 10-12 places required the full stop and walk around it was so deep. 400 horses went thru it 2 weekends ago, and it is historically bad for holding water. But as the summer comes on, these places will dry out and get better. I'd say we hit it a little early and I wasn't surprised by these conditions.
I think we may have gotten first wheels on the section I saw the saddle club members clearing last fall. As far as I know the only traffic this section has ever seen is by four wheelers and two large group equestrian rides. One of these rides was last fall and one was two weeks ago with 400 horses on it. We rolled the dice and rode the new line...and it was surprising good. The tread was in good shape and it was singletrack. The negatives were alot of staubs sticking up from the tread and there were some low lying sections that were really screwed up by the 400 horses. But the majority was good.
Eventually this came out at a dirt road and I figured this road was one the trail had crossed earlier in the day. we turned left back onto the old trail and rode it back to the car. I think next time I go, I will skip the new trail ridden in by the 400 horses and just ride the old trail out/back.
It is a shame we can't continue on the old trail. But it seems there is an issue with a new lessee of the land and he won't allow the trail use anymore. That was some of the best stuff out there. But what is there is truly a great MTB trail. More technical that Modoc, with great flow and alot of character.
It should be better in a couple of weeks in terms of the mud. I plan to ride up there alot this summer. It will keep your technical skills sharp and a few trips to the mountains has told me that mine have eroded since riding FATS so much.
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