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Post by seenvic on May 19, 2010 21:39:17 GMT -5
At the Summit there were large crowds of riders at FATS. Crowds I'd never seen before and likely won't until Augusta host the Olympics. So each loop was running a specific direction each day. The upside to this was I felt like I didn't have to worry about riders coming the other way. This was nice and I didn't see this benefit coming. I don't have alot of experience with directional trails, and have always somewhat resisted this idea. But now that I have ridden FATS under those conditions, I may rethink it. Is it a solution looking for a problem, at FATS? Are head-ons a major problem at FATS?....I dunno. But riding hard thinking no one (should be) coming the other way was nice. I would think it would work with odd days being CCW and even days being CW on all the loops. It is not without downsides, but is worth discussing. Any thoughts on this?
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Post by Mark Y on May 19, 2010 22:02:24 GMT -5
From a rider who takes it a little easier I would say it is not a problem. The only place I've ever encountered an issue with oncoming traffic is the canal trail. It will be interesting to hear from the more agressive/faster folks.
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Post by mhanna on May 20, 2010 5:34:23 GMT -5
Never had much problem with head on collisions until Tuesday's ride. Going CCW down DS I met another rider on the powerline that they just re-routed the trail on. It kind of goes downhill from both directions coming in there so we both had some pretty good momentum. Double skids stopped us about 6" from each other. There was no way to see the other person coming there.
In a year of riding out there two or three times a week, that is the first time that has happened to me. I don't know if I like the idea of directional days or not but it may increase the safety factor on some of the trails that get heavy traffic.
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Post by azdrawdy on May 20, 2010 5:39:15 GMT -5
I am 100% in favor of directional days at FATS.
I have thought so since the beginning. Haven't said much, because the few people I said it to years back didn't like the idea at all.
MD
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Post by dgaddis1 on May 20, 2010 6:22:49 GMT -5
Here's another vote for 'yes'
It would make things safer to really let it rip out there. And it would make us all ride the trails in both directions. I can't remember the last time I rode anything CW.
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Post by breynolds on May 20, 2010 6:42:06 GMT -5
It WAS nice at the Summit with the directional days. I think it's a great idea. If it got implemented, thorough signage would be a must. People that I talk to that are new still get confused which way is what.
One thing that would be lost is the Upper Skinny to Brown Wave and back out Upper Skinny route. Seems to be a popular one.
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Post by ted on May 20, 2010 6:59:28 GMT -5
I vote for no. Maybe on Saturdays and Sundays when crowds are at the highest. There will be days this summer when I will get out and ride certain trails, maybe all, in both directions. However, I've got more saddle time than others and have honed the ability to keep a 6th sense while riding. I'll speak for several other like me. So +6 or more. Don't blame non-directional attributes for not riding trails opposite of your norm. ;D A good idea none-the-less. As Spock said, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few". He must be out of his Vulcan mind!!!
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Post by brianW on May 20, 2010 7:13:11 GMT -5
Special events (Summit, FATS opening. etc.) I am for it. Other than that I am not really. I just pay attention to what I hear and see.
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Post by wooglin on May 20, 2010 7:21:39 GMT -5
The upside to this was I felt like I didn't have to worry about riders coming the other way. This was nice and I didn't see this benefit coming. Regardless of the rules, someone will eventually be riding it the wrong way just like people ride it when its closed. So I wouldn't have a whole lot of faith in people not coming the other way and I certainly wouldn't change the way I ride just because its a directional trail.
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Post by EdgeE on May 20, 2010 7:36:16 GMT -5
Special events (Summit, FATS opening. etc.) I am for it. Other than that I am not really. I just pay attention to what I hear and see. +1 "Regardless of the rules, someone will eventually be riding it the wrong way just like people ride it when its closed. So I wouldn't have a whole lot of faith in people not coming the other way and I certainly wouldn't change the way I ride just because its a directional trail. " wooglin And this sums it up I even encountered a few wrong way riders early in the morning during the Summit and it was marked @ trial intersections - no confusion, just ignored signage.
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Post by JIMMYC on May 20, 2010 7:53:56 GMT -5
I know it's a small thing, but if this happens, the upper portion of the GW, Skinny, and the BW will have to be called a connector because of the two way traffic. Then you have to deal with new signs and calenders. How about just saying on the weekends it all CCW.
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Post by seenvic on May 20, 2010 8:07:48 GMT -5
Perhaps the best discussion this board has ever had.
Too busy to talk right now. Will later.
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Post by ted on May 20, 2010 8:11:58 GMT -5
How about just saying on the weekends it all CCW. Cuz those who ride only on weekends may not want to ride it CCW. How about directional on even/odd days on weekends only? This rotates CW and CCW between Sat and Sun from week to week. That way every even Sat will be CW and the next weekend Sat will be an odd day and be CCW.
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Post by JIMMYC on May 20, 2010 8:44:44 GMT -5
Todd I agree with the weekend only, but the signage will need to be changed because of having to ride 1 to 2 trails to get to the Skinny or the BW riders will be lulled into a false sense on security and to me that's worse. I think I would maybe stay away from the trail on the directional days i don't like and if other people feel like that it might not be a bad thing.
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Post by dsquaredmsquared on May 20, 2010 9:47:35 GMT -5
If I may offer my opinion...Is the lack of directionality really a problem? If so, will directional days mitigate these risks, increase the fun factor, or both? If there is no problem, will directional days create new issues, dangers, or alter (better or worse) the fun factor?
The unintended consequences of directional days should be identified and discussed. Odd/even days applied to weekends would work, but what about 3 day holiday weekends? Although infrequent, does a Monday or Friday holiday count as a weekend day or a regular weekday?
Are hikers and runners subject to directional days? Does having a directional day give a false sense of security and potentially lead to hikers/runners getting mowed down by someone bombing down a hill? What about the biker that doesn't know, read, or chooses to ignore the trail direction? How often do you actually pass another biker going in the opposite direction?
I think whatever is decided, the "rules" should be simple and consistent or, as we say at work, "idiot-proof".
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Post by seenvic on May 20, 2010 10:11:47 GMT -5
No way we have signs on every loop that need to be changed daily or at some other interval.
Perhaps a permanent sign that had odd/even days a direction.
I am not convinced we need to do this, but it is good to talk about. At some point, we'd have to engage the USFS in the discussion.
I am not sure which side I am on. I agree with most every point in this thread, good and bad.
And it may be a solution looking for a problem.....good discussion though.
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Post by dgaddis1 on May 20, 2010 10:15:37 GMT -5
Never underestimate the ingenuity of fools. I agree with seenvic. I see good/bad both ways, and don't know which is best. It is an interesting discussion. FT. Yargo is directional based on days of the week. But they have problems with people going the wrong way still...heck, I've done it myself on accident. Signage is critical.
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Post by wooglin on May 20, 2010 10:36:57 GMT -5
And it may be a solution looking for a problem. Bingo.
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Post by DK on May 20, 2010 11:57:32 GMT -5
Being in Greenwood, I don't ride FATS much, but when I do, I never have a problem with head on traffic. This past weekend when I rode there, the parking lot was full of cars, but I only encountered others twice while on the trail. First was a biker that I met head on. I was going downhill on DS and saw him with plenty of time to slow down. Actually, he saw me as well and dismounted and moved off of the trail before I was even close, even though I had slowed in preparation to stop and let him pass. The second encounter, I rode up on a hiker with two children. Again, I saw them with plenty of time to slow and make my way past safely and without any issue.
The only head on encounter I've ever had that was a problem for me was with a cow on BW, and I don't think the cow cared which direction I was going. LOL!
The only discussions I've noticed here on the forums about direction are mostly people asking for recommendations on which way to ride. I don't recall ever reading or hearing any complaints about the trails being multi-directional.
Unless there's a safety issue, or non- enjoyment issues (complaints, hostile encounters etc.), I think it's fine as is.
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Post by Mark Y on May 20, 2010 12:10:31 GMT -5
Never underestimate the ingenuity of fools. I agree with seenvic. I see good/bad both ways, and don't know which is best. It is an interesting discussion. FT. Yargo is directional based on days of the week. But they have problems with people going the wrong way still...heck, I've done it myself on accident. Signage is critical. Even the signage doesn't always work. I've encountered people who should know better going the wrong way on the Canal trail. Caused me to fall over into the bushes because they came over a hump just as I was going up and I couldn't get unclipped quickly enough.
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