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Post by dsquaredmsquared on Dec 8, 2010 15:28:12 GMT -5
I hope we do play UConn again. In March, 2011. Great, I usually wait until March to watch college basketball anyway. Btw, is that Kemba guy on your team or ours?
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Post by mudonthetires on Dec 8, 2010 19:01:32 GMT -5
Although highly improbable, I think it would be amusing (instead of poop) to have a very large man stand next to the reroute in question on the busy days, and anyone who takes the wrong path gets either close-lined or pushed off of their bike. The mental image was quite funny and riders would probably get the message.
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Post by Apollo on Dec 10, 2010 18:06:52 GMT -5
the ride around was crazy blocked today... good job to whoever did that. Also, if Ya'll dont mind I will certainly make sure it stays that way when I'm out there.
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Post by mudonthetires on Dec 10, 2010 23:20:36 GMT -5
I rode it yesterday and put several rocks across the ride around, I'm not sure if that is what you are referring to, I figured someone would just move them back out of the way. Guess we can just keep trying.
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Post by Apollo on Dec 11, 2010 0:36:27 GMT -5
^ actually there were like 6-7 small logs, about 4 inches in diameter, stacked up tall so everyone knew it was the wrong way. It was intentional overkill and i think it worked, and hopefully with everyones help, continue to work.
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Post by neal1975 on Dec 14, 2010 23:28:13 GMT -5
im late to this thread, but wanted to peep my head in here just to make a comment or two.
I can not believe there is a debate on this issue. What does it matter if people go to the left of the tree, or around the tree? I ride this section over the rocks (which i guess is the right way), but not to offend anyone here, but ill ride it and any other section out there any god*mn way i choose. Its public land, its public property, as far as im concerned there is no right or wrong way. In other words - it doesnt matter if you ride 2 feet off the trail path for christ sakes, its THE WOODS. IT WONT HURT IT. Sometimes i park my car on the OTHER side of the parking lot, does that hurt your feelings?
Some of the people that moderate this board and/or feel that they are the caretakers of the trails need to get over themselves. This is absurd.
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Post by neal1975 on Dec 14, 2010 23:44:49 GMT -5
It takes a lot of work to flag miles and miles of trail, creating sustainable lines and good trail flow. In addition after the trail has been flagged environmental, biological, archeological, and other necessary studies are conducted and the trail plan is approved .....all that said it is important that the trail be maintained in it's original state Really ? Is that why there are fallen trees down all the time that are left there for months or years? I cant believe that you are scolding riders on how to maintain a trail when you cant even go 2-3 miles out there without having to dismount for a tree. If someone wants to ride around a fallen tree or an obstacle, just deal wtih it and let them. It isnt disneyland. People might slowly decide that the trail can be improved and that they want to ride around an obstacle. Ride-arounds in my opinion benefit the trail. Fats is an incredible trail system, it is full of mile after mile of greating riding. But even with that, its got some areas that just suck. That i wish i could ride around, and if i could i would.
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Post by dgaddis1 on Dec 15, 2010 8:12:19 GMT -5
I can tell it's gonna be good day, now that neal has, once again, graced us with his HIGHLY intelligent and informed opinion and colorful use of words. You need to get a clue man. Seriously. Really ? Is that why there are fallen trees down all the time that are left there for months or years? I cant believe that you are scolding riders on how to maintain a trail when you cant even go 2-3 miles out there without having to dismount for a tree. As an FYI, since you obviously don't get it, most of us actually like the downed trees, they provide a challenge. If you don't like them, there are two great places you should ride where downed trees are always cut off. Here and here. There's always the tow path as well of course.
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Post by rsmith on Dec 15, 2010 8:14:27 GMT -5
Dittos,
Suggest Neal spend a few minutes reading IMBA guidelines for trail construction and maintenance, along with adopted and respected trail use standards. Previous posts are example of lack of knowledge, understanding, and pure lack of respect, for both those that dedicated significant time and energy to obtain approvals, construct, and maintain - (do you participate in trail maintenance, Neal ?).
We also have environmental monitoring in Fl. – biologists / environmentalists set up square set-points along trails to monitor trail drift and wildlife / vegetation impact. This is common by land managers around the country. It is not as simple as "public land, public use” as all deem fit. As long as land is assigned to a land manager, to use forest legally, we abide. By disregarding those mandates, you are jeopardizing the riding privilege for the rest of us...... but from Neal’s posts, guess that doesn’t really matter.
Always a few apples…..
BTW - we like the trees down, ~ riders. If they pose a problem for your riding style, maybe a paved trail would suit better ?
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Post by seenvic on Dec 15, 2010 8:44:09 GMT -5
im late to this thread, but wanted to peep my head in here just to make a comment or two. I can not believe there is a debate on this issue. What does it matter if people go to the left of the tree, or around the tree? I ride this section over the rocks (which i guess is the right way), but not to offend anyone here, but ill ride it and any other section out there any god*mn way i choose. Its public land, its public property, as far as im concerned there is no right or wrong way. In other words - it doesnt matter if you ride 2 feet off the trail path for christ sakes, its THE WOODS. IT WONT HURT IT. Sometimes i park my car on the OTHER side of the parking lot, does that hurt your feelings? Some of the people that moderate this board and/or feel that they are the caretakers of the trails need to get over themselves. This is absurd. The equestrians feel the same way about FATS. Especially this part. "but not to offend anyone here, but ill ride it and any other section out there any god*mn way i choose. Its public land, its public property, as far as im concerned there is no right or wrong way. In other words - it doesnt matter if you ride 2 feet off the trail path for christ sakes, its THE WOODS. IT WONT HURT IT."
I guess I like my singletrack single and not braided all over the place. I am kinda weird that way. Riding around the "hard" line creates an easy line that 99% of the people will follow just because it is human nature. Then over time the "hard" line goes away completely because not enough people know it is there and ride it. There are 185,000 linear feet of trail at FATS and less than 500 feet of it are technical in any way. What is wrong with having 500 feet of a somewhat challenge amongst 185,000 feet of trail? Well, I'll answer my own question. 500 feet of technical challenge isn't enough! Who was the guy with the enlightened opinion about hunters? Can't be the same enlightened individual I am replying to now can it? Ya know, every group has their folks who just don't get it. At least we know who ours is.
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Post by Mark Y on Dec 15, 2010 10:15:20 GMT -5
That is the one and only place in the entire FATS system I have to "dab" my way through, and that is only clockwise. One, maybe two trees that I won't ride, and that is it. I am the least competent technical rider in the CSRA for the time I've been in the saddle, and FATS on a scale of 1-10 is a 1 for me. No reason to ride around anything out there.
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Post by neal1975 on Dec 15, 2010 16:36:37 GMT -5
everyone dont be such a crybaby about my opinions. some of you get butt-hurt way too easy
No one needs to tell anyone else how to ride the trails. No one "owns" it. We all share it, and we all are responsible for it as a big group i guess. But your up too high on your horse if you are telling people how to ride and what corners not to cut, and which way to go around the tree, etc..
It isnt about the "hard" line or "easy" line, its about what people want to do. If the trail changes shape because people get tired of riding over a stump or something - then thats whats best for the trail. thats what the group has chosen. If im walking down the sidewalk and there is a puddle, i walk around it.
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Post by kconner on Dec 15, 2010 16:49:24 GMT -5
As an FYI, since you obviously don't get it, most of us actually like the downed trees, they provide a challenge. If you don't like them, there are two great places you should ride where downed trees are always cut off. Here and here. There's always the tow path as well of course. +1....the towpath probably wouldn't work, it's got too many mud puddles ;D
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Post by seenvic on Dec 15, 2010 17:02:42 GMT -5
Well under this way of thinking......
Should equestrians, people on 4 wheelers, and motorcycles be able to ride FATS? Don't they own it too?
I'd say you said one thing well. This. "We all share it, and we all are responsible for it as a big group i guess."
And the responsible thing to do is stay on the trail that was built for you to ride.
No one is being a crybaby. I'd say most are being responsible adults who know how to act in the woods and in life. Try it sometime.
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Post by dgaddis1 on Dec 15, 2010 17:12:52 GMT -5
Well under this way of thinking...... Should equestrians, people on 4 wheelers, and motorcycles be able to ride FATS? Don't they own it too? Don't forget the hunters, who should be allowed to hunt whenever they want, however they want. It is public land after all.
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Post by brianW on Dec 15, 2010 17:42:30 GMT -5
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Post by Angela on Dec 15, 2010 18:10:22 GMT -5
Neal .........the fact is it is the land manager who is responsible for determining whether there will be recreational trails, where they will be located, how they will be used and by whom and they rely heavily on volunteer organizations, such as ours, to be good trail stewards in helping to maintain the trails once they are established. Misuse and abuse has lead to trail closures around the country so we take the task very seriously.
I have to think you must enjoy good hearty conversation about many topics and I think that gives us, as an organization, a great opportunity to educate people about a wide variety of issues..... respect for the hunters in the forest, respect and preservation of the trails themselves, why things are done the way they are, etc.
Just know that the vast majority of people on this forum are grateful for the relationship we have with local land managers and the opportunities for recreational trail use that abound in our forests and are very passionate about preserving these relationships and the resources – it took a lot of hard work by a lot of people to get where we are today.
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Post by neal1975 on Dec 15, 2010 20:23:38 GMT -5
You guys are a bunch of stiffs. Seriously.
You read my posts and put on your smug hat and start to type out a nice lecture response for me. But i read your posts and just roll my eyes
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Post by azdrawdy on Dec 15, 2010 20:55:09 GMT -5
A couple of comments here, that I have said before, and we’ll see if they stick this time:
We are concerned about a rider missing the trail by three feet. We are all upset about a rider going around an obstacle.
Point One, and the only relevant point that is forever relegated to the back pages of our IMBA-designed SORBA/CSRA trails:
IMBA Trail Solutions book, 15 Steps for Success: There should always be an easier, alternate route around a technical feature...
IMBA does not refer to these as cheater lines, and the fact that they are 24” off the original, intended trail line does not enter the equation.
Point Dos: A downed tree sits for a year or two. It is 9” above the dirt tread. A few fearless riders brave the technical feature, leave chainring marks, and “mark” their territory. Everyone else either walks it, or thinks they are all that and ride it a couple of feet, to the right, off the trail, where it is lower and doesn’t bounce so darn much. Eventually riders move further and further to the right to go over the tree, but since the trail now goes over there, it is all good. This is happening on several trees, on many trails, but at least two on FATS alone. You have to be blind to not see'em, if you have put in a few miles this year.
- Do these trees get cut, and/or do we force-route riders who are going several feet to the side of the original trail? They are obviously creating reroutes that the USFS has not authorized. There may just be some Alaskan owl species within 82 yards of that area, and we may create an inalienable habitat that their off-spring will never overcome. On the other hand, we won’t be concerned about the chainsaws and 88” tires used on the machines to harvest the trees we ride among...
Back to point two...Do we pat each other on the back that a downed tree has created some talented uber-cyclist, or do we accept downed 'riders' until they cause untold ecological damage when uneducated riders move off to the side of said trees.
MD
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Post by Angela on Dec 15, 2010 20:55:11 GMT -5
You guys are a bunch of stiffs. Seriously. You read my posts and put on your smug hat and start to type out a nice lecture response for me. But i read your posts and just roll my eyes As you should because obviously you already know everything - no smugness nor lecturing intended and I am totally cool with folks having different opinions - my responses are for others who might actually want to understand what we are trying to accomplish and why.
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