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Post by neal1975 on Feb 3, 2011 18:32:40 GMT -5
Paul,
Ill join in the crankyankers crew - as long as you promise not to . . . yank my crank.
I like to ride 1-2 mph. . . a nice slow pace, like a sunday stroll through grandpas garden.
just kidding- i like to ride a good pace. im not a racer, but im no slowpoke either. I dont ride in the cold though, its got to be 60+ for me. You guys that go out there and ride when its 35-40 are crazy
Neal 706.726.8705
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Post by neal1975 on Jan 26, 2011 19:16:40 GMT -5
What a senseless tragedy, i hate to hear stories like this. If you hit a person, and leave them for dead then you deserve 20 years in jail. I know a family that knows the guy who ran over Dr. Burke. I started to ask them a few weeks ago what ever happened to the guy who was driving the car. They said two things: That several of the riders testified that they heard the car engine REV UP before hitting the cyclists. And also that they never even pressed charges against the driver !! ? I said why not, do you mean to say he isnt in jail for this? They said, nope its "under investigation". So while Dr Burke is basically brain dead and his family destroyed, the guy who was driving basically gets away with it? Does anyone have any more info on what actually happend, and if the guy is going to do jail time , etc.. ?
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Post by neal1975 on Jan 1, 2011 14:10:52 GMT -5
Does anyone have a map online of this route that i can look at?
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Post by neal1975 on Dec 31, 2010 23:27:29 GMT -5
I took a spin on bartram today as well - the trail is in basically perfect shape and rides fast. It was a perfect day for a ride, and there lots of hikers and riders out enjoying the pleasant weather. The lake looked so low!
There is still a very large tree down about 1/2 way from petersburg to west dam, where you get on the gravel road. other than that it rides real nice out there. you guys should go take a spin
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Post by neal1975 on Dec 27, 2010 0:23:39 GMT -5
that didnt make nearly as much sense as you were hoping for.
but i translated it, i get the point. thanks for your feedback.
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Post by neal1975 on Dec 22, 2010 17:15:59 GMT -5
Oh and MH,
on a serious note, big props to you for losing the weight.
Where was your crash? On brown wave by the big dips? everyone eats it there
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Post by neal1975 on Dec 22, 2010 17:06:21 GMT -5
Great read MH !
DGaddis has allready been annointed president of the 5% club, but i would like to nominate you for vice president.
Dont get me wrong, i have a profound respect and admiration for the trails. My personality might be more coarse than some of the boy-scouts that inhabit the Sorba forums, but please believe me - FATS is a very special place and we all should do our best to preserve it. You are right, if some $*(&head land manager comes along and closes the trails, the forest would just reclaim the trails in a matter of months. that would be sad -
I enjoyed the passion of your post though! I like to read from the hardcore crowd, you guys inspire!
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Post by neal1975 on Dec 20, 2010 22:34:42 GMT -5
you guys are way more hardcore than me then - I think FATS has some extremly challenging areas (not technical, but challenging) Deep step and Tower are very tough for me. But im not that wrapped up in hard or easy - i just want fun. Im there for the "experience", just want to get out there and get some excercise, fresh air, and just take a non-life-threatening bike ride through some beautiful scenery. I guess its just about right for me and my skill level, thats why i love those trails so much. it suits me perfectly- Deepstep and Tower are tough as hell for me too; just because of the climbing. Keg is a lot more technical but not 1/2 as tiring. So far, I've not made it through either DS or TW without a stop or two to catch my breath. In terms of the overall challenge, I can ride Keg and hop off at the 3 places I can't get through and have more pure pleasure of being in the woods than I do riding DS and feeling like I'm going to puke. It is a barrel of fun going down but not for old folks coming out. <edit> It is amazing at how much you are saying is what I was feeling early on when "features" were just a PITA that interrupted my ride. Going down a big dip was a butt clenching, teeth griitting, "what am I going to do to screw this up and bust my behind" experience. Now it is a rush. The younger folk will laugh at that, but I'm soon to be 57 and had not been on a bike in 40 years when I started. When you are young, fit, and fearless it is no big deal; but try when you are older, cautious, and way out of shape. Neal, I wager in a couple of years you are going to be beefing about the folks who messed up the fun parts of your trail. Bet a beer on it? (provided I don't run off a bridge and break my neck between now and then) I dont think they will change it too much. Or at least i hope not. Maybe it would be great to add 1-2 more routes out there in the next 2-3 years, maybe some even more difficult? Variety is the spice of life they say? but i really love them the way they are- i like knowing that they are out there, permanently etched in my memory and are lying there waiting for me just as i remember them. I think the reason i like the trails so much is they are pretty flat, and FAST! You can absolutely fly through some sections and hold on for dear life. Thats what gets me to drive out there -
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Post by neal1975 on Dec 20, 2010 17:18:33 GMT -5
you guys are way more hardcore than me then - I think FATS has some extremly challenging areas (not technical, but challenging) Deep step and Tower are very tough for me.
But im not that wrapped up in hard or easy - i just want fun. Im there for the "experience", just want to get out there and get some excercise, fresh air, and just take a non-life-threatening bike ride through some beautiful scenery.
I guess its just about right for me and my skill level, thats why i love those trails so much. it suits me perfectly-
Where is TSALI? it is in NC right? I hear this is the FATS of NC ? but much harder? like 3x the elevation change etc... - yikes
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Post by neal1975 on Dec 20, 2010 8:30:01 GMT -5
Per Neal " People dont always want to do it your way. I like a casual ride, with the rare technical spot or rock to go over, but you might like a lot of that.
My guess though is that about 90-95% of riders like a casual line, with just casual riding, smooth trail line, and an easy-does-it riding style. Most people arent out there to risk there neck, but just to enjoy it and have a good time and get back to the car in one piece."Well we definitely will not have to worry about seeing Neal on Wine, Turkey, Baker Creek, Long Cane, Hickory Knob, or Lick Fork as they are way too technical for his casual style. He doesn't know yet that with this crowd every ride is a race. And none of those trails are even technical. Modoc, Mistletoe, and Keg are our most technical trails. And even they aren't really that technical, they each only have a few technical spots here and there at the creek crossings. Really, is that why no one ever rides there? Except the 5 % percent crowd which I will declare you the chairman of. Ive ridden some of those other trails once or twice, they dont compare to fats. Yes they are more technical, but the FATS parking lot is always full for a reason. Its the best in the area-
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Post by neal1975 on Dec 19, 2010 16:04:57 GMT -5
[qoute]
I see it that it validates my argument.
The pile of rocks can be ridden by anyone. All you have to do is steer at them, and you will ride right over them in either direction. This will work as long as you are going about as fast as you normally would. The faster line is going over the rocks. The slower line is going around the rocks. Now, because 99% of riders take the ride around, skilled riders like Angela and Brian NEVER EVEN SEE THE LINE over the rocks and it goes away. We have 185,000 linear feet of trail at FATS. Why do they all have to be buttery smooth and offer no chance to enhance a rider's confidence and ability?
History of this spot. The machines were not used in the approach to "Shrimper's Rock". One line was built by hand, straight over the well embedded rocks. The large rocks around the line were strategically placed to NOT allow a ride around. A ride around was not needed here as all one has to do is roll over these rocks. But instead someone decided it best to get off their bikes and move the rocks choking the riders into the over the rocks line. I used to move them back all the time and finally gave up. And now we have a ride around that 99% of the people think is the line and bypass a spot that could have boosted their confidence in their abilities.
Is Neal's point that 95% of the riders are right well taken by me? When is a good time to listen to the 95% of riders? Should we have listened to them when they were telling us we were never going to get the USFS to partner with us on FATS? Should we have followed them when they said "no, I won't help at FATS, or no I won't donate money to FATS" and just given up. Should we have listened to them when we formed our SORBA chapter with 20 people some 12ish years ago? The 95% were wrong on every issue that local 5% of mountain bikers have faced and figured out how to overcome. The leadership of the 95% would have us riding Modoc, Turkey Creek and Horn Creek. Wine and Keg would never have been resurrected. HKSP, Bartram, FATS....never built. SORBA CSRA never formed. I don't plan to start listening to the 95% anytime soon. They've been on the wrong side of every MTB issue and they are wrong on this one.
[/quote]
see what i mean by peoples feeling are getting hurt? Why are you taking it so personal?
People dont always want to do it your way. I like a casual ride, with the rare technical spot or rock to go over, but you might like a lot of that.
My guess though is that about 90-95% of riders like a casual line, with just casual riding, smooth trail line, and an easy-does-it riding style. Most people arent out there to risk there neck, but just to enjoy it and have a good time and get back to the car in one piece.
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Post by neal1975 on Dec 18, 2010 0:45:26 GMT -5
Shrimper's rock is on GW. Great ride right over the rock which is/was the intended line. The trail drift is to the right of the rock. The picture basically validates my argument. The trail changed to what people wanted it to be - instead of going over a rockpile, it weaved in and out of them. it evolves to the natural shape and path that the majority (95%) of the riders take. Thats what makes it work- There are some spots here and there at FATS that deliberatly go through rocks and roots and you have no choice really, and these are fine. but i like the areas where you have two options. maybe one line is faster, and one is bumpier and more technical. too bad its too cold to ride. guess ill just sit at home and eat toaster strudels and get fat and watch my legs atrophy
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Post by neal1975 on Dec 17, 2010 19:26:30 GMT -5
What is shrimpers rock ? Is this the rock area in question about halfway through upper skinny?
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Post by neal1975 on Dec 16, 2010 23:43:20 GMT -5
I think it jsut seems like it hurts the people feelings that made the trail, or did the original "work". the people who got out there and devoted their time to cutting the original line of trail might take it personally if the crowd starts to redo what they did. Am i right there? No matter what - its an epic trail system. A ridearound here and there wont hurt anything. It will stand the test of time and continue brining people from all over to ride- peace and chicken grease No hurt feelings involved at all Neal - professional trail builders were paid to come in and design and build these trails. A ton of planning, time, work, and money went into the effort. Our organization put in hundreds of hours of time working with the professional trail builders to make this happen. There is not one single member of this organization who "gets their feelings hurt" because someone destroys or messes up part of the trail. It simply means we haven't done a good enough job educating the offenders and that now we have more work to do on the trail when we would rather be riding. Just as a note, I starting mountain biking because I discovered a sport that I am passionate about - I love to be in the woods with my friends and family riding the trails enjoying nature and yes getting a little exercise. Once I realized things don't just "magically" get done out in the forest I joined this organization called SORBA in order to give back and do my part because there is a tremendous need for committed individuals to come out and help - there is approximately 150 miles of singletrack in our neck of the woods and the hundreds of hours of work that are done on them each year take a lot of committed folks. What you don't seem to understand (and I'm not telling you Neal - I'm telling this to all the others reading this) is that those bypasses constitute illegal trail - there was no permission for that bypass trail to be built there by the land manager. That is why we try to get things repaired as quickly as possible.........but there is no real obligation for us to do so, we are simply a group of people who volunteer, no one is paying us and other than the satisfaction of helping maintain the trail often it is a thankless task so we have to do it because it is important to us. There will always be people who damage the trail - some of those people do it out of ignorance and we do our best to give them a heads up but then there are the others - the ones who simply don't care and will do as they want - not a lot you can do there but the more folks we have riding the trails who are responsible trail users the less we have to contend with the likes of the others! Well, at any rate, thank for your service and your work on the trails. I may disagree about whats right and wrong, or whats "legal" (i think most of that stuff is being really overblown), but I do still want to pause to thank you or anyone out there that puts in their own time to work on the trails. When you ride those trails, you can see the work and the care in them, and even with a few hiccups here and there - do they not put a huge smile on yoru face everytime? So thanks to all the trail volunteers, and i do apologize to anyone that i stepped on in this thread. Its a hobby i love deep down, its supposed to be fun, healthy, and a fun thing to share with others. However since its gotten cold i havent ridden any lately and im starting to get fat and out of shape. I need to get out there, it was just about my only legit form of excercise.
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Post by neal1975 on Dec 16, 2010 18:28:45 GMT -5
I think it jsut seems like it hurts the people feelings that made the trail, or did the original "work". the people who got out there and devoted their time to cutting the original line of trail might take it personally if the crowd starts to redo what they did. Am i right there?
No matter what - its an epic trail system. A ridearound here and there wont hurt anything. It will stand the test of time and continue brining people from all over to ride-
peace and chicken grease
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Post by neal1975 on Dec 15, 2010 22:27:03 GMT -5
I never said that the trails arent well cared for. (i do gripe about a down tree once and then)
Yes there are trees down here and there and other small problems, but that is largely out of peoples control. What i said back in May still holds true - its an awesome trail system, and you can tell alot of love is put into it, and alot of thought was put into it. No amount of gripeing i do can ever put a dent in the straight up awesome-ness that is FATS. Its heavily ridden because its the best in this area.
My argument was: it is a part of nature. It will grow and change and evolve, and then fade away back into the woods someday. Dont tell people whats best for it, thats a pile of horsecrap and you know it - we are riding bikes through the woods which is in no way shape or form beneficial to the natural setting, its invasive, it pollutes nature, it disrupts the wildlife. Just enjoy it for what it is, its recreation, and its different for everyone.
And yes i would love to ride a 4 wheeler through the trails, or a dirtbike. watch out, ill run you over
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Post by neal1975 on Dec 15, 2010 20:23:38 GMT -5
You guys are a bunch of stiffs. Seriously.
You read my posts and put on your smug hat and start to type out a nice lecture response for me. But i read your posts and just roll my eyes
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Post by neal1975 on Dec 15, 2010 16:36:37 GMT -5
everyone dont be such a crybaby about my opinions. some of you get butt-hurt way too easy
No one needs to tell anyone else how to ride the trails. No one "owns" it. We all share it, and we all are responsible for it as a big group i guess. But your up too high on your horse if you are telling people how to ride and what corners not to cut, and which way to go around the tree, etc..
It isnt about the "hard" line or "easy" line, its about what people want to do. If the trail changes shape because people get tired of riding over a stump or something - then thats whats best for the trail. thats what the group has chosen. If im walking down the sidewalk and there is a puddle, i walk around it.
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Post by neal1975 on Dec 14, 2010 23:44:49 GMT -5
It takes a lot of work to flag miles and miles of trail, creating sustainable lines and good trail flow. In addition after the trail has been flagged environmental, biological, archeological, and other necessary studies are conducted and the trail plan is approved .....all that said it is important that the trail be maintained in it's original state Really ? Is that why there are fallen trees down all the time that are left there for months or years? I cant believe that you are scolding riders on how to maintain a trail when you cant even go 2-3 miles out there without having to dismount for a tree. If someone wants to ride around a fallen tree or an obstacle, just deal wtih it and let them. It isnt disneyland. People might slowly decide that the trail can be improved and that they want to ride around an obstacle. Ride-arounds in my opinion benefit the trail. Fats is an incredible trail system, it is full of mile after mile of greating riding. But even with that, its got some areas that just suck. That i wish i could ride around, and if i could i would.
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Post by neal1975 on Dec 14, 2010 23:28:13 GMT -5
im late to this thread, but wanted to peep my head in here just to make a comment or two.
I can not believe there is a debate on this issue. What does it matter if people go to the left of the tree, or around the tree? I ride this section over the rocks (which i guess is the right way), but not to offend anyone here, but ill ride it and any other section out there any god*mn way i choose. Its public land, its public property, as far as im concerned there is no right or wrong way. In other words - it doesnt matter if you ride 2 feet off the trail path for christ sakes, its THE WOODS. IT WONT HURT IT. Sometimes i park my car on the OTHER side of the parking lot, does that hurt your feelings?
Some of the people that moderate this board and/or feel that they are the caretakers of the trails need to get over themselves. This is absurd.
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