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Post by dsquaredmsquared on Jul 15, 2013 11:15:07 GMT -5
We've been getting a lot of emails from out-of-town folks, planning a road trip to FATS, asking if the trail will be dry enough to ride this weekend (07.20.13-07.21.13). Here is what has become our boiler plate reply... Dear Mountain Biker, As much as I hate to say it, I doubt that FATS will be dry enough to ride this weekend. It rained yesterday, it is supposed to rain again this afternoon, and the rest of the week is predicted to be the normal summertime 20% chance of afternoon thunderstorms. I think we've received nearly 21" of rain since June 1st and it has rained nearly every day for the last 30-something days. We sent someone out to scout the trail last week and there was standing water where there has never been standing water, as well as water running down the trail. It's a mess and will probably take at least 5-7 sunny days with temperatures in the 90°s before the tread dries out. The twitter feed @fatsupdate is the most accurate and current source for trail conditions, so I would just watch the twitter feed. Surprisingly, I read that Blankets Creek, near Woodstock, GA, is open so you might try heading towards Atlanta or go north. Sorry I don't have better news. - SORBA-CSRA Of course, this means that locals should stay off FATS too. Thank you for your support. EDIT: No hyperbole here. Our daily dose of rain is right on time.
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Post by Angela on Jul 16, 2013 16:49:50 GMT -5
Big failure on the USFS to fail to provide a large red gate to shut down parking for both parking lots. These gates are all over the CSRA, to protect other valuable resources, but we can't use them for our resources. MD Further discussions have taken place, I'll see about getting this added to the agenda for the August meeting - come join us for an update!
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Post by Angela on Jul 16, 2013 17:13:58 GMT -5
No guarantees of course but it looks like we might make it through the day without rain. Below is the sky over FATS right now. What does that mean? The trails can BEGIN to START drying out. They aren't ready to ride and won't be ready to ride. If we can have another day with no rain we will send in a scout to assess the trails. Do not ride the trails, they are at their most vulnerable right now because the siren call to ride is calling all of us and the trails are still saturated despite the blue sky and white fluffy clouds. We will report back as soon as we have additional information to share, we are as ready as you are to get back out onto the trails. It is going to be a jungle out there with the overgrowth that was already getting bad two weeks ago in places.
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Post by Mark Y. on Jul 16, 2013 18:39:46 GMT -5
Big failure on the USFS to fail to provide a large red gate to shut down parking for both parking lots. These gates are all over the CSRA, to protect other valuable resources, but we can't use them for our resources. MD Further discussions have taken place, I'll see about getting this added to the agenda for the August meeting - come join us for an update! It would worth the saved maintenance time and expense if the chapter paid for the labor and materials to install one. Since their budget is always so tight, maybe they would go for that provided they control when it gets closed.
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Post by dsquaredmsquared on Jul 16, 2013 19:20:25 GMT -5
Further discussions have taken place, I'll see about getting this added to the agenda for the August meeting - come join us for an update! It would worth the saved maintenance time and expense if the chapter paid for the labor and materials to install one. Since their budget is always so tight, maybe they would go for that provided they control when it gets closed. I think we are getting way ahead of ourselves. Why do we see red gates all over the CSRA? Because they are locked 98% of the time (i.e., being used). What if there were gates at FATS? They would be open 98% of the time (i.e, unused). I don't see many red gates around the CSRA that are open 98% of the time. I don't think the USFS would put in gates that are going to be used 2% of the time. Let's say that I am wrong and gates are installed at FATS (either SORBAcsra or USFS pays/installs), the gates will likely have to be controlled by the USFS (I doubt non-USFS personnel will be allowed to control access to Federal property). Currently, what is the rate limiting step with trail closures at FATS? The USFS. After gates are installed, what will be the rate limiting step with closing/locking the gate? The USFS. Yes, we are discussing this among the SORBAcsra officers, but I think a lot of things need to happen/change before we see a satisfactory resolution. Maybe putting gates in the parking lot was discussed when FATS was being built and an executive decision was made to not have gates, I don't know. I wasn't there. Nonetheless, it isn't very helpful to point out 5-7 years after FATS was built that the lack of gates is a failure - unless you just realized that there are no gates.
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Post by jp3 on Jul 16, 2013 20:33:38 GMT -5
Unfortunately the gate won't keep the hard asses out. They will just park on the road somewhere and use another access point. If the USFS doesn't have time to open and close gates, they sure don't have time to patrol the trails for poachers.
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Post by oddcouple on Jul 16, 2013 21:02:13 GMT -5
No gates at any other Trail in the CSRA ,why FATS ? I would be very very careful what I wished for, we just might get them and they could be closed a long time.
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Post by brianW on Jul 17, 2013 6:29:14 GMT -5
and this is why I always suggest a "Trail:closed/open" flip sign like the ones at Ft. Yargo. this would keep honest riders out, a piece of tape can be removed. I will not address trail poachers because they do not follow trail ethics.
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Post by Angela on Jul 17, 2013 7:26:57 GMT -5
And while we welcome the suggestions Brian and we do have an MOU with the land manager, they make the call on anything permanently installed on any of the USFS trails. The relationships we have with each of the local land managers are very different and their ability to act can be affected by the policies and procedures they operate under. Fort Yargo is a state park if I am not mistaken. Come to the August meeting, we welcome the opportunity to discuss the issues!
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Post by brianW on Jul 17, 2013 15:54:24 GMT -5
If SORBA-CSRA does not have the ability to close the trail, then why tape them off? Isn't that what the tape is attended to do. If it does have the ability to do so, has my suggestion been forwarded to USFS or similar way to notify people the trails are closed? A piece of tape can easily be ripped down.
I have seen similar signs not just at Ft. Yargo but in the mountains of NH and VT when back country skiing/hiking areas had avalanche dangers. Those were a mixture of state, local and USFS lands. My idea, IMO is cheaper then a gate as mentioned above.
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Post by dsquaredmsquared on Jul 17, 2013 16:50:21 GMT -5
If SORBA-CSRA does not have the ability to close the trail, then why tape them off? Isn't that what the tape is attended to do. If it does have the ability to do so, has my suggestion been forwarded to USFS or similar way to notify people the trails are closed? A piece of tape can easily be ripped down. I have seen similar signs not just at Ft. Yargo but in the mountains of NH and VT when back country skiing/hiking areas had avalanche dangers. Those were a mixture of state, local and USFS lands. My idea, IMO is cheaper then a gate as mentioned above. I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was supposed to forward your idea(s) from this forum to the USFS. Lots of armchair quarterbacks and everything seems so simple from a distance. Why don't you come to the monthly meetings, we'll get you up to speed, and you can be part of the solution.
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Post by Angela on Jul 17, 2013 20:01:42 GMT -5
Left work hoping to do a little scouting out at FATS between the rain. It rained earlier this evening but most of the heavy rain was south of I20 - FATS did get rain but it was relatively light. Wanted to see some key points along the trail that I could access easily (coming from work I was in a dress and heels, fortunately I found a pair of sandals in the car). I will post more video and pictures and comments later but just as a start here is a section of trail that I walked from the bench at the intersection of Skinny and Great Wall up the hill to near the gravel road. Look at all the water coming across the trail, that was not from that light rain today those are active seeps because the water table is so high. Not a great video but as I am coming up the hill check out the erosion near the top of the hill.
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Post by oddcouple on Jul 17, 2013 20:55:54 GMT -5
Wow, now I know it does not really matter if I am a member of SORBACSRA. Having been a past member for many years, putting a couple hundred hours of Trail work into our Trails. Worked on other Trails in South Carolina, Georgia, North Carolina. Attended IMBA's 3 day Trail Building Class, NMBP Member, Certified Sawyer. Certified Wilderness First Aid Responder, all for mountain biking, Does not matter if I can not attend the meetings. Thank You for letting me and everyone else know.
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Post by Angela on Jul 17, 2013 21:35:36 GMT -5
Not at all, your contributions through the years have been priceless and very appreciated. We certainly understand that not everyone can attend the meetings, as a matter of fact if they did, where would we even meet - you are talking 180 to 190 members. However some things just need a face to face discussion and this is one of them. Trying to go back and forth on a public forum is not the place and it would make for an even "newsier" newsletter. Brian is an active and appreciated volunteer and always willing to lend a hand. If he comes to a meeting we can bring him up to speed quickly on a decade of interaction with our land managers! It's all good.
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Post by Angela on Jul 17, 2013 22:45:22 GMT -5
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Post by clydesdale on Jul 17, 2013 22:59:53 GMT -5
It is time to break out the kayaks or sailboats to get back on FATS or even Bartram. Maybe August will be a drier month.
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Post by ted on Jul 18, 2013 5:39:10 GMT -5
Wow, now I know it does not really matter if I am a member of SORBACSRA. Having been a past member for many years, putting a couple hundred hours of Trail work into our Trails. Worked on other Trails in South Carolina, Georgia, North Carolina. Attended IMBA's 3 day Trail Building Class, NMBP Member, Certified Sawyer. Certified Wilderness First Aid Responder, all for mountain biking, Does not matter if I can not attend the meetings. Thank You for letting me and everyone else know. +1
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Post by dsquaredmsquared on Jul 18, 2013 5:57:34 GMT -5
Wow, now I know it does not really matter if I am a member of SORBACSRA. Having been a past member for many years, putting a couple hundred hours of Trail work into our Trails. Worked on other Trails in South Carolina, Georgia, North Carolina. Attended IMBA's 3 day Trail Building Class, NMBP Member, Certified Sawyer. Certified Wilderness First Aid Responder, all for mountain biking, Does not matter if I can not attend the meetings. Thank You for letting me and everyone else know. Really??? I know you wouldn't be this indignant if we had this conversation in person. With your history on the trails in the CSRA, certainly you can appreciate that nothing is simple or straight forward when dealing with government agencies. Similarly, some relationships with government agencies are pleasant and mutually beneficial while other relationships, or other topics, are strained, requiring extra effort and/or finesse. I'm sorry some people can't make the monthly meetings, but this forum is not an appropriate place to laundry list the reasons, rationale, and nuances of why we don't send every suggestion from the interwebs to Federal Land Managers; particularly those land managers that we are actively working to establish a better relationship. Can't attend the monthly meetings, but want to be part of the solution? Call me, email me, call one of the other officers, or email one of the other officers. I don’t think anyone has ever been turned away from a real person to person conversation seeking more information, offering suggestions, or trying to understand the details surrounding a particular issue. Do you have my email or phone number? Seems like we need to talk and try to resolve your feelings of disenfranchisement.
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Post by dsquaredmsquared on Jul 18, 2013 6:02:30 GMT -5
Wow, now I know it does not really matter if I am a member of SORBACSRA. Having been a past member for many years, putting a couple hundred hours of Trail work into our Trails. Worked on other Trails in South Carolina, Georgia, North Carolina. Attended IMBA's 3 day Trail Building Class, NMBP Member, Certified Sawyer. Certified Wilderness First Aid Responder, all for mountain biking, Does not matter if I can not attend the meetings. Thank You for letting me and everyone else know. +1 O.K. you feel disenfranchised too. Rather than +1, can you tell me (phone, email, or in person) what exactly it is that you are unhappy about and what I can do help you feel more included? Unfortunately, I can't provide a constructive response to +1.
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Post by crockpot2001 on Jul 18, 2013 8:16:49 GMT -5
O.K. you feel disenfranchised too. Rather than +1, can you tell me (phone, email, or in person) what exactly it is that you are unhappy about and what I can do help you feel more included? Unfortunately, I can't provide a constructive response to +1. I think he may have simply agreed with the comment he had copied. Taking a look back at the last few responses, it demonstrates that difficulty of modern, written communication. There is a brashness on the surface that I don't think exists in real life for anyone involved. A do-over, a ride, and beer(s) would be nice. Our kiddie pool is too small even for imaginary turds. Stan
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