Proposed fee

[mtbazhiker]

I am really surprised the proposed $3 fee hasn't been brought up here.

How does everyone feel about it.?

Seems to me like a way for the forest service to make some money.

I read that some of the fee would be used to test the quality of water from the little pump well.

[wooglin]

Can you be a little more specific? What proposed fee? Just for FATS or for all USFS trails? In the district or in all SC National Forests? Is there an annual alternative or is day-by-day payment the only choice?

[chileanrastabilly]

Down boy, down! Seeing how it's under the section entitled FATS, it's probably feasible to presume that he is talking about the FATS!

[mtbazhiker]

wooglin said:

Can you be a little more specific? What proposed fee? Just for FATS or for all USFS trails? In the district or in all SC National Forests? Is there an annual alternative or is day-by-day payment the only choice?

There is a sign on the FATS kiosk. From what I read it is for FATS only. $3 bucks. I am not sure if there is a yearly pass option (I am sure there will be).

I am interested in what the FATS pioneers have to say about it. I think the place is definately worth a fee, but money is money and I would rather not have to pay. Too bad there isn't some sort of waiver for people who volunteer for trail maintenance.

Also I find it interesting that other rides in the area have no fee. With the popularity of FATS is seems suspecious to me that the Forest Service wants to start charging.

To be fair though, the sign states the money would be used to expand and update the parking area and pay for rangers to patrol the parking lot. I quess I would rather pay 3 bucks, than come back and find my car broken into.

[yetichick]

If you ride Horn Creek, you know there is a fee to ride that trail. The proposed fee for FATS would be along the same line. When Libby Meadows, USFS, came and discussed the fee at our August SORBA/CSRA monthly meeting, she said the FATS fee would fall under the same yearly pass that is available for Horn Creek (aka Lick Fork). The yearly pass (I think it is $20, maybe $25) includes several areas within the Sumter National Forest, such as Parson's Mountain and Lick Fork. One of the things the fee covers is toilet paper in the bathrooms. Libby told us at the meeting that we were very fortunate to have the bathrooms. They were paid for by a grant, and the grant was awarded because of the good relationship between SORBA/CSRA and the USFS. The USFS would like to hear everyone's opinions (both for and against the fee) and any comments people may have.

[terryg]

I believe the Horn Creek fee is only if you use the recreation area parking. If you park outside on the fs road, no fee.

[yetichick]

That is correct. If the fee is approved (it will be per vehicle, not per rider) , FATS will be the same way--you can park on the gravel roads and not use the parking lot or facilities. I know at the bottom of the Brown Wave there is a nice cul-de-sac, and there are other areas where you can pull off the gravel roads and park. I prefer the parking lot for the following reasons: 1) visit with other riders, 2) easy and convenient to park there, and 3) I love, after a hot ride, to get a towel and use the water from the water pump to cool down and wash off the trail dust!

[seenvic]

I know that the USFS is constantly working on the motorcycle trails and horse trails up near Parson's Mtn. The source of the money is the fee being discussed here. Granted, those trails are poorly designed and take a beating. But, I'd like to think that as the tread of the trail needs any money spent on it for materails (rock, wood etc...) that the USFS would pay for these things out of this fee. I am not sure if the rules have changed or not, but it used to be that 80% of the fee had to be spent on the site that generated the fee. In other words, the fees raised at FATS, can't be used to fix a bathroom at the USFS office.

Also, there are 2 more loops out there already flagged and just need funding for construction. The fee should either help pay for this directly, or be available to match grants for the new construction.

I used to be opposed to the fees. But after seeing no money spent on Modoc, Wine, Turkey (no fees) and plenty of money spent in the fee based trails at Parson's Mtn, I am coming around. At Horn Creek, the USFS has spent most of the fee money on the campgrounds, bathrooms and water system, I believe. I would guess the nice bathroom at the trailhead was paid for by the fee at Horn Creek.

An annual pass can be purchased for $25 that will be good for all fee areas on the district. Pay $25 one time and park all you want at the various trailheads w/ a fee.

The fee is per car, not per rider. It is basically a parking fee, and not a trail use fee. Anyone that parks in the parking lot (hiker, hunter, bike rider) has to pay the fee or have an annual pass.

[mnbiker]

$25 annually would be worth it to keep this area up.

[Guest]

I think I pay enough in taxes already. I mean when I had a job I paid enough in taxes to cover me for a while.

[Chileanrasta]

Maybe the fees should be used for directional signs and also to
point out the flora and fauna on the FATS trails. I don't like the idea of FATS fees being used elsewhere other than on the Fats or other mtb trails in the Sumter National Forest. Sounds like the annual pass is the way to go. How might I go about getting one? My $.02!

In the cool shade of the banana tree
On the rugged trail toward the balcony
A child of the twentieth century
A dried up Goliath and a weasel named Fee

Far away in another place
A fading beauty named Milly Grace
And a bamboo cane to help her keep the pace

Fee was a Buddhist prodigy
Long past the age of maturity
Someday he knew it would set him free
Like it did for Floyd the chimpanzee

Oh, Fee, you're trying to live a life
That's completely free.
You're racing with the wind
You're flirting with death
So have a cup of coffee
And catch your breath

Fee first met Milly in a bar in Peru
His heart was jumping like a kangaroo
Like a beast in a cage in an old Dutch zoo
It was hopping and thumping in wooden shoes

But Floyd was jealous and alone
He wanted Milly for his own
A desperate craving in his bones
"Their love", he said, "I will not condone."

Then one day on a ship to Quebec
Floyd found Milly on a lover's trek
He picked up a bottle and broke off the neck
It sliced through the air, and Fee hit the deck

Oh, Fee, you're trying to live a life
That's completely free
You want to stay with Milly
Until you're dead
But you just got a bottle
Upside your head

Milly turned and began to scream at Floyd
said "You think you're pretty mean"
And though she was as thin as a small string bean
She slammed him in the face with a nectarine

Floyd fell back over the edge of the ship
Till he hung from the rail by his fingertip
said, "Floyd I'll make you lose your grip
With this tiny piece of paper I can make you slip"

So Milly took that paper and did the deed
Floyd hit the water with astonishing speed
And as the sharks circled and began to feed
Milly knew her weasel was finally free

Oh, Fee, you're trying to live a life
That's completely free
Floyd is dead; he's nothing but a ripple
Cause Milly took that paper
And sliced him on the nipple

[ec494]

I do not yet comprehend the above. My experiance in life is that if you want something nice you must pay for it. In a world controlled by money, do not think that your voice will be heard if you come with empty pockets. A fee makes sense. I am relatively new to the area and I am extremely impressed by what sorba csra has acomplished with all the trail systems in the area but without a good relationship with the landowners it would be difficult and those landowners happen to be those who want to charge a reasonable fee.

and yes i will be sending in my membership fee to sorba csra and if asked to contribute further to help fund specific projects i will help

once again thanks to sorba csra and the usfs

eric

[jtaylor]

The annual passes are available at:
USDA
810 Buncombe Street
Edgefield, SC 29824

I've been buying passes for Horn Creek/Lick Fork for years- it's too much of a pain to stop and put money in the envelope. Although, most folks have not paid and there has been little enforcement at LF, at least in the past.

[azdrawdy]

I am not sure what the USFS can do to actually "enforce" the payment of the fee. Towing would be a nice solution, but...

What I have seen them do to remind the person who surely just didn't see the kiosk and envelopes is simply to put a blank/empty envelope between the widshield and wiper.

Michael

[ted]

azdrawdy said:

I am not sure what the USFS can do to actually "enforce" the payment of the fee. Towing would be a nice solution, but...

What I have seen them do to remind the person who surely just didn't see the kiosk and envelopes is simply to put a blank/empty envelope between the widshield and wiper.

Michael

I'll tell you what they do to "enforce" the payment of the fee.
They will give you a $60 ticket. $35 for not paying and a $25 processing fee.
One of two people at Lick Fork this morning got a ticket for not paying to park. Libby arrived too late to catch the first person, but was able to catch the other as he was leaving.
Here's the kicker. The guy that she did catch and fine, who drives a Burgundy Toyota truck, had a SORBA sticker in his window! Explain that whoever you are.
If you don't want to pay, park on the gravel road.
Since it's so hard to send off for a pass, one can go by the camp hosts site at Lick Fork and obtain one. He always has them on hand.
Don't make the rest of us look bad just because you are an .......
The funny part is yesterday was an annual "free day" at Lick Fork. All parking and camping fees were waived.

[azdrawdy]

BOOYAH!!!!

Good for Libby. She needs to nail freeloaders. I did not know those fines were available for her (USFS) to use as needed. If you don't want to pay the fee, then don't use the facilities. There are plenty of gravel roads to park beside...

Good point about the SORBA sticker. Fess UP!!!!

Michael

[sngletrkstar]

I think we could use some of the funds raised to start paving the FATS trails..

[chileanrastabilly]

Yea, what he said.........

[Mark Y]

Just reviving an old thread I stumbled across. It is a bit embarrassing to find these after bringing these same subjects up as if they were orginal thoughts.
Oh well, that is the price of being a newbie I guess... (note to self-do a search before opening your mouth)

Anyway, I still think user fees are the great equalizer. I was part of the decision to go this direction in another recreational club I'm a member of, and it has worked out great. The people who use the various parts of the facility pay a little extra to support that part, relieving the rest of the membership of the burden to pay for something others are using. We also have work party fees; $100 if you don't participate in at least two in a year.

Obviously, the local trails don't fit that template but the principle is the same, if you use it, you help pay the upkeep.
In these austere times (it will get a lot worse before it gets better IMO), our representatives may be more open to the idea of implementing more user fees for public land. Maybe a good time to write them?

Just think, some local unemployed people could get paid to plant bricks, mow weeds, cut vines, repair bridges, etc.; giving SORBA volunteers more time to ride! Win-Win!

[brianW]

Most of the trails (if not all) are on either state or fedral land. As a mountain bike club I believe we do not have the right to charge a trail use fee. if Sumter NF decided to charge for parking at NFS parking areas (some NF do charge) i would not be against it as long as there is an annual parking permit and that the funds go back to Sumter National Forest not to DC.