STAY ON THE TRAIL SIGNS

[JIMMYC]

While scouting the skinny loop today, thinking about armoring the section where the rotten bridge was removed, i noticed new "stay on the trail" signs just above that section.
I would say the forrest service is paying attention.

[seenvic]

Those are a good addition. Will make people think and eventually figure out what to do in other places and on other trails. There could be a few more here and there but I realize it is vols doing it and I thank them.

I have been talking to a few new riders...some old friends of mine from college who don't live here but just started riding. It is pretty amazing what they don't know and never thought of.

I also ran into a fella yesterday taking a lot of pics and asking questions. He told me he is working with the local ems to come up with the safety plan. I told him what I knew and it sounds like something is in the works. I knew him from years ago and he is a bit of trail safety expert.

[Mark Y]

Bill, speaking of the EMS and safety; I'm still pondering the issue of how you get someone out of the woods who is not ambulatory. Do the rescuers just carry a litter or do they have one of those big wheel things they can push on the trail?

[seenvic]

The fella spoke about a Rokon (http://www.rokon.com/products/index.htm) with a custom stretcher attached to it. I remember this guy from way back in the day and he is a safety expert. If he says he can fabricate this thing, I believe him.

I am not sure who pays for the machine and the stretcher.

[kconner]

I work for a local fire department as well as a local ambulance service and am part of a statewide USAR team, and if I were working to remove a patient from a trail (any local trail, not just FATS) the "best" way, in my opinion, is to use a long spine board and stokes basket/litter along with 2-4 attendants.

Keep it simple.

Most of the local trails have some sort of access, whether it be forest service roads, paved roads, private roads/driveways, etc. the EMS unit can be placed fairly close to the trail, therefore reducing the hike. Even if you park at the trailhead, the hike is only a couple of miles from any point farthest from the trail, and the work required to haul someone out of any of the FATS trails is way less than the amount of work it takes to fight any house fire I've been to. The key is education of the local EMS service and fire department....they need to know where the trails run and where any access points are. From there they just need to locate the patient

Problems with a mechanized extraction device:
-who buys it? a volunteer fire department typically has limited funds
-added maintenance
-how does it get to the trailhead? you either have to build some place to store it, or you have to buy a vehicle just to tow it around (this wouldn't fit on a fire engine or ambulance)
-additional training, not just to run it, but to run it properly and SAFELY, and not worsen the patient's condition on a winding, bumpy trail....imagine driving over whoops on that thing

The only advantage I can come up with is that a mechanized extraction device MIGHT be a LITTLE faster, but I would bet some serious money that a crew who knows what they're doing can walk a litter out faster than a patient can be driven out from almost any point on the trail.

In summary, the local fire department and EMS service can efficiently perform patient extractions with equipment they already own (the only equipment they may not have is a litter, which cost very little or can be easily made). We just need to sit down with representatives from the local fire department, EMS service, and Sheriff's Office, come up with a plan and practice it and work out any bugs. This makes all parties involved look good, and above all, it provides the BEST patient care, given the circumstances.

Again, KEEP IT SIMPLE.

I would be happy to help with the formulation of a plan, and know a couple of guys at work who may be willing to help out. Just let me know.

[Mark Y]

I was thinking more of something like this:

inexpensive, no maintenace, easy storage. You could probably fabricate one with a golf cart wheel and some angle iron.

[kconner]

This would definitely take the load off the first responders, as far as having to tote a patient out....the only problem I see with this is that space is at a premium on any fire engine....they might be able to accomodate this if they have some sort of specialized rescue vehicle or utility vehicle with space that they can spare. Someone needs to sit down with the fire department leadership and see what they have room for. Cool idea!

[OopsFellDown]

I remember back in 2004 some dufus crashed and broke his tib/fib (compound fracture) on the Bartram Trail (OK, it was me...). I weighed about 175 lbs at the time, and it took 6 people to carry me out on a backboard (they took turns carrying, 4 at a time). The distance was less than a mile, but they really struggled and had to stop and rest a few times. If I had not had friends there when I crashed, I dont think that 2 EMTs would have been able to carry me out by themselves, and this was on fairly mild terrain, no big slopes, rocks, etc. The big wheel thing might have been a good solution, but who would bring it to the accident site? Also, the thought of being towed behind a Rokon while in serious pain is horrifying, every tiny bump is agony. Side note: A guy from the Sailing Club rode an ATV to the crash site to help carry me out, but the EMTs were not comfortable with this (understandable), so they did it the hard way.

[kconner]

In most cases, "the hard way" is typically "the best" way when keeping in mind that the goal is to give the best possible patient care. Given your example of a tib/fib fracture ~1 mile from an extraction point, limited resources are available. Assuming the patient has a patent airway, is breathing, all bleeding is controlled and the heart is working (there is a pulse) this situation is an emergency, but is not immediately life-threatening (for the time being). The priority is to stabilize the patient (in this case, probably take precautions for shock, cover patient with blanket, start IV), splint the fracture if possible, and extract the patient. Given the nature of the injury, you want to be as gentle with the patient as possible, which excludes motorized/mechanized transport, which leaves a litter as the only option (a backboard is doable, but is smaller and harder to control and will tire a crew out faster). Granted, it's not easy, it's not fun, but given the task at hand, it's the only viable option as far as I can tell. Given the manpower issue, emergency response protocols in Columbia County have changed a good deal since 2004, and now you will have a minimum of 2 EMS personnel and 2 firefighters on the initial response. Additional personnel from the fire department, EMS and Sheriff's Office can also be called if needed. As I work on the Georgia side of the river (GO DAWGS!), I don't know exactly what the response protocols are, but given that there are largely volunteer fire departments in Carolina, manpower shouldn't be an issue. Cost and storage for bulky specialized rescue gear is an issue, for both career and volunteer departments.

Given that most of the injuries sustained on a mountain bike trail are not immediately life threatening, frequent breaks should be taken while hiking a patient out, both to give responders a chance to catch their breath and reassess patient vitals.

Finally, mountain biking is one of those "inherently dangerous" activities that is willingly undertaken by participants, mountain bikers must understand that if an accident happens, the patient may be in an area that may not be easily accessible (ambulances can't drive down a trail made for bikes and a helicopter can't land on top of trees ) but, given cooperation between public safety agencies and the local trail users, the "inconvenience" of an injury can be minimized.

[JIMMYC]

I'm not an EMS expert so I won't comment on that portion of this discussion.

But what did strike me, the Forrest Service put these markers up (who knows they may have had them laying around and had to use them before the end of the year) before they put up location markers.
In my mind they do not want "natural trail evolution", and they have been paying attention to the ride arounds. My point is it's not just the "trail Nazi's" who want everyone to take care of the trail, it's the people who really have the final say.

[dgaddis1]

And don't think some of our land managers aren't reading these forums. 'Cause they are. Which is a good thing.

[Apollo]

Pertaining to the actual meaning of "staying on the trail"... is that just stating that riding off the trail and creating ride arounds is frowned upon or is dismounting from your bike going off the trail for a break maybe to sit down on your pack and enjoying a cliff bar with the scenery frowned upon as well? I have been guilty of this but I Know my impact is minimal due to the way i conduct myself in the woods. Kind of an honest question because my lazy ass does this from time to time, not all of my breaks are short enough to just stand in the trail to catch my breath.

[Angela]

Staying on the trail refers to staying on the trail when you are riding. If you stop to take a break very important for you to move your bike off the trail or as near as off the trail as is physically possible so you don't block it in case other riders are coming along.

Since it would be most rare for each person riding the trail to actually stop and get off the trail in exactly the same spot for a break, it would be rare to damage the trail in that way - most concern would probably be folks taking their trash with them when they leave

Hunters walk through the woods all the time and leave no impact, however if you had a long line of hunters and they were following each other single file they would probably leave an impact - that is why it is so important for the us to be conscious of keeping the singletrack single - if not alert it is easy to go around instead of over even little deviations in the trail. Highest use areas like the top of the Skinny which is the feeder to most of the other trails are most vulnerable.

[Apollo]

^ Thank-you, and naturally I always pack out. My first love is hiking and I'm super aware of my impact. you'll probably notice me out there munching on something, looking worn out 5 feet off the trail... Hiking and biking use two completely different sets of muscles.

[Angela]

My experience tells me most hikers and bikers are extremely conscientious about packing it out.......... on occasion I'll see a wrapper or a tissue but it looks like the majority was just something that came out of a pocket or a miss by someone stuffing their trash in their Camelbak on the fly.

When we first starting riding the new portion of the Bartram Lake trail some sections looks a bit like the dump but I knew most of it was from the lake being up and depositing the trash it contained. I started carrying a plastic bag to haul it out. By now the leaves have probably covered most of what is left out there.