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Post by DK on Oct 21, 2010 19:53:23 GMT -5
you dont have a banjo do you? Nope, but I have these posted on my property. ;D
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Post by DK on Oct 21, 2010 20:00:55 GMT -5
I am in less danger in the woods during hunting season, with or without orange than I am in Augusta. If I recall there has been 30 murders this year in Augusta already with many more shootings and other violent crimes. About 15,000 people are murdered each year, only 150 deaths by hunting accidents. just to put it in a different perspective. anyone riding tomorrow morning? Yep, I'm more comfortable riding in the woods during hunting season than I am in my own neighborhood. At least there I know who's armed, and that they would rather be shootin' at something besides me. Ride or hunt, ride or hunt, hmmmm, tough choice.
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Post by neal1975 on Oct 21, 2010 22:00:07 GMT -5
;D sounds personal !
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Post by Mark Y on Oct 21, 2010 23:50:09 GMT -5
, only 150 deaths by hunting accidents. And how many of those are cases of hunters shooting others by mistake? Very few I wager; most are people accidentally shooting themselves.
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Post by brianW on Oct 22, 2010 7:18:51 GMT -5
When I was an EMT in New England we responded to a hunter shot. He was climbing down the deer stand and slipped. It was his pistol that discharged in his leg.
We made fun of him all the way to the hospital. He was a local police officer that we all new well. He was back at work in 2 weeks.
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Post by oddcouple on Nov 2, 2010 22:19:35 GMT -5
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Post by Angela on Nov 3, 2010 6:02:33 GMT -5
Thank you! Excellent information to share!
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Post by seenvic on Nov 3, 2010 8:11:22 GMT -5
Quite a leap. I'd disagree. Hunters and fisherman pay fees to harvest a product, not use the public land. Many hunters pay to use private lands that at one time we rode across to connect trails or the trail itself was on private land (paper co. land). Plum Branch is a great example of a trail going over private lands that for 50ish years were never leased to hunters. But as soon as the lease went into effect, we lost the last 3 miles of this trail and can't ride the trail at all during hunting season. Same for the Old School Connector. These hunters pay the same "harvest fees" whether or not the game is taken on private or public lands. Hunters pay the same thing we do to use the land.....nothing (unless there is a fee of some sort like at Like Fork). DNR is the most anti-bike trail land management agency in the state of SC. They manage Jocassee Gorges and closed to bikes the Palmetto Trail that was originally opened to bikes. The only opposition to FATS in the public scoping process came from SCDNR. As far as trails go, if we have anyone to thank it is the gov't agencies who managed lands where trails are actually being built. USFS, state parks, ACOE who have made the lands they manage open to bike trails. SCDNR does not manage ANY land in SC with a legal bike trail on it. SCDNR does manage GAME (not land use) on alot of acres that allow bike trails. But from the record I see with SCDNR, if they could, they'd close every bike trail in the state. And they would do it to benefit hunting and fishing. If you have some info on what SCDNR or hunters/fisherman have done for bike trails in this state, share it. But the link you posted has nothing to do with bike trails, land use or anything remotely having a positive impact on trail access. I voted NO on that Amendment as there is no threat to hunting and fishing in this state. I think hunting and fishing are wonderful activities done by great people of character. I just don't think we need to amend the state constitution. It is a solution looking for a problem.
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Post by neal1975 on Nov 3, 2010 16:15:32 GMT -5
Have you guys noticed this ?
The Fats parking lot, and the trailhead, and the trails (especially the trails) are trash free, but all the spots where the hunters park their trucks on the side of the road on woodlawn are littered with trash. beer cans, beer boxes, fast food wrappers etc.
maybe its just a random coincidence though -
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Post by wooglin on Nov 3, 2010 18:19:53 GMT -5
One hunter (or anyone else who parks there) throws crap out on the side of the road, and you want to blame it on all hunters.
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Post by DK on Nov 3, 2010 18:36:08 GMT -5
Quite a leap. I'd disagree. Hunters and fisherman pay fees to harvest a product, not use the public land. Many hunters pay to use private lands that at one time we rode across to connect trails or the trail itself was on private land (paper co. land). Plum Branch is a great example of a trail going over private lands that for 50ish years were never leased to hunters. But as soon as the lease went into effect, we lost the last 3 miles of this trail and can't ride the trail at all during hunting season. Same for the Old School Connector. These hunters pay the same "harvest fees" whether or not the game is taken on private or public lands. Hunters pay the same thing we do to use the land.....nothing (unless there is a fee of some sort like at Like Fork). DNR is the most anti-bike trail land management agency in the state of SC. They manage Jocassee Gorges and closed to bikes the Palmetto Trail that was originally opened to bikes. The only opposition to FATS in the public scoping process came from SCDNR. As far as trails go, if we have anyone to thank it is the gov't agencies who managed lands where trails are actually being built. USFS, state parks, ACOE who have made the lands they manage open to bike trails. SCDNR does not manage ANY land in SC with a legal bike trail on it. SCDNR does manage GAME (not land use) on alot of acres that allow bike trails. But from the record I see with SCDNR, if they could, they'd close every bike trail in the state. And they would do it to benefit hunting and fishing. If you have some info on what SCDNR or hunters/fisherman have done for bike trails in this state, share it. But the link you posted has nothing to do with bike trails, land use or anything remotely having a positive impact on trail access. I voted NO on that Amendment as there is no threat to hunting and fishing in this state. I think hunting and fishing are wonderful activities done by great people of character. I just don't think we need to amend the state constitution. It is a solution looking for a problem. In SC there is a separate fee to hunt public land. You have to purchase a Game Management Permit to have legal hunting access to anything marked as a Game Management area. All of Sumter forest is Game Management as far as I know. At least im Abbeville and Greenwood counties it is. I hunt only on private land, so I didn't purchase a GMA permit. Of course that private land is smack in the middle of the GMA land, so I have to take care to stay on my side of the fence. Your point is valid as far as the agencies are concerned, but DNR isn't the sole source of monies that fund the public land. One of the largest sources of the dollars that go towards public lands and their management (not the only source, just one of the largest), no matter if it's DNR or the Forest Service, is from hunters and their conservation efforts. I think that was more of the point rather than what agency actually supports biking. The money comes from much more than just the licenses. Organizations like the NRA, NWTF, and Ducks Unlimited pour out a lot of money for public land access. Yes they have a specific reason for doing it, and it may not be biking, but their efforts have a much broader range than just their specific agendas. You take away every cent of money from hunting and you're gonna lose a lot of public land for sure. Tax money and small special interest groups like IMBA and SORBA(small compared to the NRA, NWTF, etc.) just wouldn't be enough.
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Post by mudonthetires on Feb 4, 2011 21:37:07 GMT -5
Have you guys noticed this ? The Fats parking lot, and the trailhead, and the trails (especially the trails) are trash free, but all the spots where the hunters park their trucks on the side of the road on woodlawn are littered with trash. beer cans, beer boxes, fast food wrappers etc. maybe its just a random coincidence though - Or what would make even more sense is that if they are parked along a main road, all of that trash could be thrown out of vehicles/blow out of trucks that are driving down the road. Neither of which are hunters or bikers. Bottom line whether you are a hunter, a biker, a preacher, a doctor, or insert whatever you want.....some people don't care and some people do. The jerks and aholes aren't category specific.
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Post by neal1975 on Feb 4, 2011 23:22:53 GMT -5
Have you guys noticed this ? The Fats parking lot, and the trailhead, and the trails (especially the trails) are trash free, but all the spots where the hunters park their trucks on the side of the road on woodlawn are littered with trash. beer cans, beer boxes, fast food wrappers etc. maybe its just a random coincidence though - Or what would make even more sense is that if they are parked along a main road, all of that trash could be thrown out of vehicles/blow out of trucks that are driving down the road. Neither of which are hunters or bikers. Bottom line whether you are a hunter, a biker, a preacher, a doctor, or insert whatever you want.....some people don't care and some people do. The jerks and aholes aren't category specific. Actually, i have noticed that nearly all cyclists, and i mean almost al,l 99.999%, have a very noticeable respect and care for the trails and the woods. The trails are a very special place to them, and i think it is reflected in how protective people are of them and the surrounding areas. They are kept clean and people jump through all kinds of hoops to try and preserve it and keep it natural. maybe we are too busy biking to stop and litter. My point was, that mountainbikers as a whole, have a notably higher level of respect for the environment and nature, than the typical camper or passerby, etc.. I have been thinking about some of my jackass posts on this forum in the past months or so - and , i am really going to try and reform my attitude a bit this year. I want to try and open up more to the sport, and to gain a higher connection and sense of appreciation for nature and the outdoors. I want to try and get out there and give back some of my time and work on the trails some and be more a part of the maintenance in some way. Something so great and so fun deserves giving back a bit. If people didnt do that in the first place. . . then it wouldtn even be there. amirite?
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Post by Mark Y on Feb 4, 2011 23:25:24 GMT -5
Interesting anectdote; my brother and I hiked the Georgia side of the Chatooga River (part Bartram) from Hwy 28 to Hwy 176, and the ONLY place we saw a speck of trash was at Warwoman Creek. There was vehicle access at that point.... Don't know who was guilty, but it darn sure wasn't hikers; and from what I've seen, MTBr's have the same respect for the environment.
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Post by breynolds on Feb 5, 2011 8:20:06 GMT -5
I want to try and get out there and give back some of my time and work on the trails some and be more a part of the maintenance in some way. I'm sure someone can chime in here with the date of the next work party, you should really try to make it out! They are actually fun and you will meet some great people (maybe even some new riding buddies).
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Post by Macho Retro on Feb 5, 2011 19:49:01 GMT -5
I voted no on this as well. The Hunter to Cyclist relationship is like a Wolf in Sheep's Clothing, or a Fox in the chicken coop. Looks good on the surface, but underneath Hunters would eat cyclists and hikers alive if their land/sport? was threatened. I'll only thank a hunter if he's also a cyclist or hiker. Few and far between around these parts. Remember what seenvic said, SCDNR was the ONLY group opposing FATS. So explain to me why hunters (in this case a group representing hunters) should be thanked. With that said, I'll thank Doug and other cyclists/hunters in our area.
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Post by Macho Retro on Feb 5, 2011 19:51:20 GMT -5
Thank you! Excellent information to share! Do some research and then say that again. No where in this new amendment does it mention anything about recreation other than hunting or fishing.
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Post by Angela on Feb 5, 2011 20:50:30 GMT -5
It doesn't have to mention anything besides hunting or fishing for the funds to benefit other forest users in my opinion. The fact that the fees from hunting and fishing help support the DNR activites and there are other users benefiting - trail runners, hikers, bikers, etc. is the point being made I think..............
Why: Hunters and anglers continue to be the primary funding source for conservation of our natural resources in the United States. Through regulated hunting and fishing, the purchase of licenses and the collection of federal excise taxes on hunting and fishing equipment, agencies like the Department of Natural Resources are able to conserve and manage our wildlife and public lands for generations to come.
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Post by Mark Y on Feb 5, 2011 23:03:25 GMT -5
Another thought; us hikers and riders will never get the respect of other outdoorspeople until we show the same to them. Hunters have been in the woods a lot longer than cyclists. You know the old adage about flies, honey, and vinegar.
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Post by oddcouple on Feb 5, 2011 23:40:36 GMT -5
From what I could find.
28 million hunters in the USA
28 million hunters buy hunting license and or permits.I don't know where all the money goes but I am sure some of it goes into land preservation.
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