What defines "beginner"?

[Mark Y]

This subject came up at last night's dinner meeting in the context of Skinny being promoted as a beginner trail, and some people getting in over their heads while riding it.
I think part of the question is how seasoned riders measure themselves as opposed to a rank beginner. With the exponential growth of bike enthusiasts over the past few years there are many, many folks hopping on bikes for the first time in 20 years and heading out to "ride in the woods" without a clue as to what that entails. I was guilty of it. Three years ago I walked into the bike shop and said "sell me something to ride the towpath". Didn't know about FATS or any of the other trails in the area, and certainly had no clue about the physical challenge the hills presented. While the majority of you guys can ride 25 miles without breaking a good sweat, rookies find even Skinny to be a challenge without stopping a few times along the way.

That said, the suggestion was made that we need to think about how we direct people on where to ride and what skill level is required. I don't find the "technical" aspect of it to be much concern, as you always have the option of walking any technical parts; but if you are physically gassed with 3 miles to get back, it can get ugly.

Can't fix stupid or protect people from their own ignorance I know, but as ambassadors of the local trails we need to think about offering our best advice.

My $.02

[dgaddis1]

I think the best way to do that is to have an article/page on the site for beginners that explains what they should expect on their first ride, and suggestions for where to go.

Anyone want to write it? I can do it, but if someone else feels they could do it better, that's cool too. Maybe someone who not very long ago was a beginner.

[chaosx44]

I will be glad to take a stab at writing something up. Ill send it to you but please feel free to alter it in any way, or scrap it in its entirety, if it is not what you are looking to say.

[ehscott]

I would suggest that the description be broken down into the technical skills needed to ride a trail vs. the amount of physical fitness needed to ride a trail. Any of the trails at FATS would be "advanced" from a fitness standpoint if one isn't used to it. Skinny is "beginner" in the sense that a fit person should be able to get around it without crashing over an obstacle, as opposed to Deep Step or Tower/Big Rock, where one needs to be able to handle their bike AND be physically fit.

[ehscott]

additional thought: this is not a phenomena isolated to FATS. This past weekend I was at Tsali with Money and some other guys. We saw two couples pull up with basically cruiser bikes, no helmets, and go out on the Right Loop at Tsali. Somebody in our group heard one of them remark after they got back to the parking lot "We thought that was supposed to be a beginner trail". I think some people see "beginner trail" and they think "Greenway". I probably did before I got into it.

[seenvic]

Say it is 1991.

The bikes have no front or rear suspension. Cantilever brakes, V brakes not yet thought up. No clipless pedals. No tubeless.

The local trails to ride are Horn Creek, Modoc, Lick Fork, Turkey Creek.

Where do you send the beginner?

__________________________________

Or look at this way. Look at the world of trails that exist that can be ridden.

It is not unreasonable to classify ALL the local as beginner trails when looking thru a world view lense.

People who live in WNC have an issue of not many beginner trails.
_____________________________________

Skinny is a beginner trail. Old Bartram more so of a beginner trail. It is relative for sure. If you live in the MTNS, and came here to ride......

[dgaddis1]

Sept 15, 2010 11:00:35 GMT -5 ehscott said:

Any of the trails at FATS would be "advanced" from a fitness standpoint if one isn't used to it.

That's the problem - you can say that about ANY trail, even the little 2.8 mile canal loop. They're all hard if you're not used to it.

That's what we have to make people realize - if you live an inactive lifestyle and then go ride in the woods, it's going to be HARD.

If a beginner is classified as your average, overweight, inactive American - all of our trails will be difficult. The tow path is difficult for many people. BUT - some trails are easier than others, and we need to steer people towards those trails. That's the point that was made last night and I agree with that.

[seenvic]

There are beginners and people who have no business riding a bike in the woods.

I don't confuse the two.

[brianW]

I personally steer new riders to the trails toward Bartram (petersburg toward the dam) If they can handle that round trip Skinny should be fine.

FATS can bite a beginer (and a seasoned mt biker as well) do to the speed you can pick up.

[bikerpanda]

Perfect example: I bought a bike. Went to skinny with two water bottles and a helmet. Made it two miles and realized I was in over my head.

I still have to stop and catch a small breather sometimes on just the skinny loop.

When riding Bartams I never felt I needed to stop and never felt really gased or anything. New Bartrams is a different beast. I usually stop twice on the way to wildwood and once on the way back to petersburg.

I agree that people need more education before hitting certain trails. I certainly felt in over my head a lot and sometimes I still do. I couldnt imagine riding 4 loops at FATS in one day. I couldnt imagine riding new bartrams and keg in a day.

I think I could write up something for beginners if you would like me too. Technically I dont feel beginner, but endurance I do. Ive ridden Wine, Pumping Station, Greeneway, old bartrams, keg, new Bartrams, Brown Wave and Skinny if you would like me to do those. Just email me preferred length and points to focus on. [e-mail]

[dgaddis1]

You don't need to neccessarily compare all of the trails. If a co-worker of yours was going to go mtn biking for their first time ever, what would you tell them? Write that. PM it to me or e-mail it to me.

Chaosx44 already sent me something as well. I'll take the good points everyone makes and compile it into one article/page.

Thanks for the help guys and gals!

[johnnyb]

People can think they are active,but never pushed themselves to the experience level that it takes to ride skinny,bartram,etc. And are clueless to what it takes to navigate and finish. An actual mountain bike trail. These thoughts aswell should be incorporated into said article. As bill vic would say I'm a bubblegum machine of ideas so whom ever writes up the article I'll be glad to help if any extra ideas are needed.

[brianW]

Been on many hikes/rides with "gym jocks" that were anything but fit in doing real active things like mt biking, hiking, cross country skiing, rock climbing, etc.

[Mark Y]

Sept 15, 2010 11:11:51 GMT -5 seenvic said:

Say it is 1991.

The bikes have no front or rear suspension. Cantilever brakes, V brakes not yet thought up. No clipless pedals. No tubeless.

The local trails to ride are Horn Creek, Modoc, Lick Fork, Turkey Creek.

Where do you send the beginner?

__________________________________

Or look at this way. Look at the world of trails that exist that can be ridden.

It is not unreasonable to classify ALL the local as beginner trails when looking thru a world view lense.

People who live in WNC have an issue of not many beginner trails.
_____________________________________

Skinny is a beginner trail. Old Bartram more so of a beginner trail. It is relative for sure. If you live in the MTNS, and came here to ride......

Which really begs the question, "what is beginner?" Beginner is different depending on the audience being spoken to. Would it be prudent to speak to the lowest common denominator; the 45 yo guy/gal who hasn't been on a bike since they were 16? Dunno, it is a good debate. As you all have discerned, I err on the side of caution; but a lot of folks live in a bubble....

[oddcouple]

Beginner=someone who thanks you cant get hurt on a bicycle.

Intermediate= someone who thinks he/she will never get hurt

Advanced= someone who knows he/she can die on a bicycle

[wooglin]

Sept 15, 2010 21:19:05 GMT -5 oddcouple said:

Beginner=someone who thanks you cant get hurt on a bicycle.

Intermediate= someone who thinks he/she will never get hurt

Advanced= someone who knows he/she can die on a bicycle

Perfect.