To cut or not to cut, that is the ?

[Homer]

I knew when I saw the first picture that guy was on a 29er. Logs+29er=Fun with a lot less endo factor.

[wooglin]

Ah, but what was he wearing? Not the gold lamé skin suit I hope.

Nice guy I think. I sold him a fork a year or so ago.

[seenvic]

forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=227081

Lets revisit this topic. Saw this on mtbr.com

[ec494]

the big log on the front part of the skinny i cannot clear but one day i will, each time i go out i tell myself i am going to ride over it, it is just like when i race motocross there is always a jump that i cannot clear i would never think about going to the promoter and telling him to change it i just keep trying to find a way to get better

[azdrawdy]

We're pretty much at the point that we need to sit down at a SORBA/CSRA meeting and grade our trails. We have the IMBA books and their guidelines. Then let's go by the guidelines for trail maintenance.

Heck, I and my wife love logs that come in at a foot or below, but that's us. As one of the chain sawyers, I DO NOT cut off every tree. However, if their is a two foot high tree that one out of every 100 riders on HC or the Lake Trail can clear, and I have my chain saw on my BOB, it is coming out. Period. More big'uns will fall.

Michael

[seenvic]

azdrawdy said:

We're pretty much at the point that we need to sit down at a SORBA/CSRA meeting and grade our trails. We have the IMBA books and their guidelines. Then let's go by the guidelines for trail maintenance.

Heck, I and my wife love logs that come in at a foot or below, but that's us. As one of the chain sawyers, I DO NOT cut off every tree. However, if their is a two foot high tree that one out of every 100 riders on HC or the Lake Trail can clear, and I have my chain saw on my BOB, it is coming out. Period. More big'uns will fall.

Michael

I think the above is right on for HC and the Lake Trail. I appreciate your efforts there. I need to go ride the Lake Trail sometime.

I don't think you are saying this is what we need to do everywhere. At least I hope that's what you're saying.

I agree on the ratings. Barbara emailed me a list of trails and I ranked them. Turns out we were almost identical in our ratings. I thought that was good material for this forum....we could get the opinions of about 3-4 people and hundreds of others can read those opinions. ;D

[JIMMYC]

I think there needs to be set obstacles just like creek crossing, and switchbacks. I think that would eliminate the guess work.

Before, when we use to take it upon ourselves, we would cut everthing because we knew more would fall, as long as we had that saw we would use it.

[wooglin]

Speaking of sawyers, what are the chances of getting a chainsaw cert course on a Sunday afternoon this fall sometime? If it wasn't for those pesky rules I really would have gone to town on Turkey Creek this weekend. I need that trail.

[azdrawdy]

Bill, you and I are pretty much on the same wavelength. I know my limitations and I don't lose sleep over dismounting to get over a log. Doesn't hurt my feelings at'all. I watched Jimmy B. literally fly over that tree on the Skinny and I was impressed! Beautiful! Will I do that in my lifetime? HA!

No, I have zero desire to see every tree on every trail get cut out. That's why the SO and I have poured over the IMBA book the past several evenings. As you know, we need to grade these trails and come to a consensus on what type of trail maintenance we will use for each one. I rode the Lake Trail knowing it was going to be a beginner-style trail, hammer down! I ride HC expecting a few trees down, and lots of roots. I ride FATS expecting a coupla' rock gardens, some downed trees, lots of rollers. I ride Turkey enjoying every foot of it! I ride Modoc expecting...Well, I don't ride Modoc! Not my cup of tea. Let's rate'em using IMBA guidelines as GUIDELINES (not the ten commandments).

JimmyC: Do you have a copy of the IMBA 's Trail Solutions? If not, let me know when you will be at FATS this weekend and I can hook you up.

Wooglin: We are setting up a chainsaw certification class right now for SORBA/CSRA members. The proposed dates are Oct 6,7 or Nov 10,11. Both are Friday/Saturday classes, and instructors are to be brought in from afar. The people that will be trained need to be ready to use their skills. Awesome classes. I agree with you on Turkey. I love that trail! Well, as long someone else hits it before me and takes out those freakin' spiders which set out NETS every 100'.

Michael

[wooglin]

Those dates won't work. Bummer. And is it really a 2 day course? Do they teach you how to rebuild the engine or something? Sheesh.

[yetichick]

SORBA/CSRA is actually doing a very good job with the trail maintenance. The last time I rode Modoc, which was in March, there were several riders on the trail. Baker Creek always has riders, FATS has riders, Horn Creek has one at this time if people choose to take the route over the tree, Wine had riders the last time I rode it (awhile ago), and of course FATS has riders.

Going back over the posts from last January, everyone seems to be in agreement on the types of trails we have, and the types and sizes of trees that should be left on the trails, based on their difficulty rating. What I don't think some people realize, though, is the number of trees that fall that are not riders. Last year Michael and I cut over 40 trees off of Horn Creek. That's a lot of trees. Riders? The trees were either very large, or fell 2-4 feet above the trail at odd angles, etc. Bill, you remember the 9 trees that fell the week before the Baker's Dozen? What a mess. It can also get quite interesting to cut a tree that is 24" in diameter (wider than the bar on the chain saw), and the bottom of the tree is 2 to 3 feet above the trail. That, Wooglin, is why you have a 1 1/2 day chain saw class. You are taught how to safely cut that tree, and there is more to it than just pulling out your chain saw and cutting. The class is an excellent class, and you will be amazed at what you didn't know and what they teach you.

I also remember the first time I rode Horn Creek. It was in terrible condition! Most people wouldn't ride it because of the number of trees down across the trail. We went to our first SORBA/CSRA meeting in December of 2001, and Angela was voted in as President even though she wasn't at the meeting and had no idea that was going to happen. One of the first things Angela did was schedule a work party to clean up Horn Creek! It was awesome! Now people not only ride Horn Creek (Lick Fork), but we have the Baker's Dozen at that location.

The SORBA/CSRA work parties are not the only time that trail maintenance is conducted. There is also the person that is riding (or hiking) the trail, and removes a small tree, etc. One of the first logs I learned to jump was on Horn Creek. I loved going over that log. It was small enough that if I messed up I didn't eat dirt. On the other hand, I had plenty of opportunity to learn to clear it, and now I can clear larger logs. One day I came to that spot and the log was gone. It hurt my feelings; however, I got over it fast since I knew another tree would fall. There are many people who ride our trails who have never even heard of SORBA, or IMBA. They truly believe they are doing the right thing, and I'm sure not going to be upset with them.

Last year Bill asked us to go in at Horn Creek and cut a notch out of the tree on the reroute he had completed for the Baker's Dozen. It is the tree that is still there. We went in on Thursday night, cut the notch, and I tried riding it, but couldn't. No big deal. For the race I was expecting to jump off my bike fast, pick it up and carry it over the tree, jump back on and take off. Much to my surprise, on Saturday, the day of the race, I went out for my first lap and what do you know--someone had taken the pieces and ramped the log. HA! I guess that person decided it was that important of a race that they had to be able to clear that log.

Just some thoughts. Basically, though, I truly believe our group does a very good job. We have a lot of trails with different difficulty ratings, and I believe that we have appropriate logs/obstacles on those trails.

[JIMMYC]

You are right I should have studied my copy, I got one the day FATS opened. The image I had was 2 to 3 people standing over a log wondering "do we cut this", I should know better.

I have been out of it for quite a while it is amazing how far trail engineering has come.

[jtaylor]

Lots of good points both here and on the site in Bill's link. When I first saw Bill's sign I about died laughing.

As some have said, education will be a tough issue- I think the Sorba members are sensitive to the issue, but other folks riding the trails are not. As an example, I see the "big" log on Skinny now has a bunch of small branches where somebody tried to make a ramp; and on the short handbuilt section of Great Wall, where there was a tight, humped section, somebody broke the little trees out to open it up (same thing happened on Horn Creek a year or two ago).

It will be a b**** if we have to put a sign on each obstacle that says "leave alone". I guess that's why we look forward to the storms because we know there will be more trees in the trails to clean up.