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Post by ted on Apr 1, 2013 7:10:15 GMT -5
Funny how things become important/obvious after the fact.
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Post by josh on Apr 1, 2013 7:23:45 GMT -5
Has anyone thought of contacting USAT (Colorado)(Race Sanctioning), or the "local" promotor from Hilton Head ? Not that we would expect any effort would result to repair damage, but complaints should be filed - and we suggest SORBA-CSRA should be the reporting group. We have (had) reservations for another trip to HK middle of this month. We're cancelling. From riding this trail for last 8+ years, we know it is very susceptable to wet - clay base softens quickly, ruts remain a long time as clay dries in rutted form, especially on the west side of the peninsula facing the main body of the lake, and the climb back up to the barn - instead of the campground exit. We often canceled rides there, resepcting "do not ride when wet" signs. Very sad to see the damage, more suprised HKSP would allow this to occur. We often met rangers to talk about trail clearing, which we usually did while visiting - including Beaver & Turkey. They always seemed interested in protecting / preserving the trail. Thanks in advance for SORBA-CSRA's efforts to file complaints. We would gladly join in a trail work day to help restore.
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Post by dgaddis1 on Apr 1, 2013 8:00:05 GMT -5
That doesn't look all that bad really, considering the conditions and number of racers. This trail is absolutely crushed. Foot after foot, yard after yard. This trail does not exist as it did a month or so ago. It will take more hours to bring it back that the majority of people are willing to volunteer. I just sincerely hope that we have enough volunteers to bring it back. For-profit events and promoters do not care about "our" agenda. Period. If you want an example of this, take an afternoon and go ride HKSP. Report back here. Pro and/or co. Michael Didn't realize it was the entire trail that looked like that. Bummer indeed.
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Post by dsquaredmsquared on Apr 1, 2013 8:41:55 GMT -5
Has anyone thought of contacting USAT (Colorado)(Race Sanctioning), or the "local" promotor from Hilton Head ? Not that we would expect any effort would result to repair damage, but complaints should be filed - and we suggest SORBA-CSRA should be the reporting group. We have (had) reservations for another trip to HK middle of this month. We're cancelling. From riding this trail for last 8+ years, we know it is very susceptable to wet - clay base softens quickly, ruts remain a long time as clay dries in rutted form, especially on the west side of the peninsula facing the main body of the lake, and the climb back up to the barn - instead of the campground exit. We often canceled rides there, resepcting "do not ride when wet" signs. Very sad to see the damage, more suprised HKSP would allow this to occur. We often met rangers to talk about trail clearing, which we usually did while visiting - including Beaver & Turkey. They always seemed interested in protecting / preserving the trail. Thanks in advance for SORBA-CSRA's efforts to file complaints. We would gladly join in a trail work day to help restore. Yes, SORBAcsra leadership is developing a strategy to assess, address, and repair the extensive trail damage at HKSP, as well as prevent this situation from happening again at HKSP or any of the other trails in the CSRA. We will keep you informed as we make progress or when we need additional help from the mountain biking community.
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Post by beckyl on Apr 1, 2013 10:44:32 GMT -5
The trail damage bums me out and we are happy to help when help is needed to restore the trail. That park has so much to offer and the mtn biking is (was?) a BIG bonus. I think using this as a "lesson learned" and making corrections (in multiple arenas) based upon that is a good approach in moving forward. It's always easy to point fingers but in the end the damage is done and you have to think of ways to fix it and move on....as I believe SORBAcsra is doing.
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Post by Angela on Apr 1, 2013 12:11:26 GMT -5
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Post by dsquaredmsquared on Apr 1, 2013 14:08:42 GMT -5
Bottom line is that race promoters are going to run the race rain or shine, the event is their bread and butter. It is up to the resource manager to protect the asset when entering into those agreements but after two(??) successful Xterra events up at HKSP think rain/deluge was simply not on anyone at HKSP's mind. So...how exactly does damage like this get fixed?
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Post by crockpot2001 on Apr 1, 2013 14:48:46 GMT -5
Pics are worse than I thought.
I have my race calender in front of me. I'm looking at a good number of XTERRA events and those of other organizations. Would it jeopardize the SorbaCSRA response for little tatters like me to send XTERRA a tactfully written note that, until a policy for trail stewardship is presented, there will be no participation/funds from me? I just cannot see them coming back to fix things.
Until I hear from Dan, Paul or otherwise I will keep my thoughts to myself.
Cheers
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Post by dsquaredmsquared on Apr 1, 2013 15:05:58 GMT -5
Pics are worse than I thought. I have my race calender in front of me. I'm looking at a good number of XTERRA events and those of other organizations. Would it jeopardize the SorbaCSRA response for little tatters like me to send XTERRA a tactfully written note that, until a policy for trail stewardship is presented, there will be no participation/funds from me? I just cannot see them coming back to fix things. Until I hear from Dan, Paul or otherwise I will keep my thoughts to myself. Cheers From what I was told earlier today, XTERRA events are operated by local race promoters (but lots of money also goes to the larger XTERRA organization too). A quick search for XTERRA's official policy on weather and damage to the natural resources (i.e., trails) didn't find much of substance - other than references to race rain or shine. Hard to believe that they don't have a policy to mitigate damage to the trails that provide them a race venue. Sooner or later, enough land managers will get burned by events that damage their trails that there will be few places willing to hold these events. Don't poo where you eat comes to mind. SORBAcsra cannot prevent anyone from voicing their opinion to land managers, race promoters, or anyone else that is not a careful steward of the natural resources they own, maintain, or use. If you do choose to voice your opinion, please do so respectfully and with the purpose of encouraging them to do the "right" thing.
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Post by crockpot2001 on Apr 1, 2013 15:34:24 GMT -5
Thanks my friend. I will proceed with tact and encourage others to do so as they see fit.
Regards, Stan
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Post by Angela on Apr 1, 2013 23:33:40 GMT -5
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Post by Angela on Apr 2, 2013 6:08:35 GMT -5
I remembered this video I took at last year's ETtR at Hickory Knob's Lake Loop, now that you have seen some of the pictures I suspect you will appreciate just what has happened to this trail once you watch a little of this..........
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Post by dsquaredmsquared on Apr 2, 2013 10:51:30 GMT -5
I remembered this video I took at last year's ETtR at Hickory Knob's Lake Loop, now that you have seen some of the pictures I suspect you will appreciate just what has happened to this trail once you watch a little of this.......... Ughhh, so sad
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Post by Mark Y. on Apr 3, 2013 13:00:52 GMT -5
Wow. That reminds me of a rutty, mucky trail I rode up at Clemson once. It really made me appreciate the quality of what we have here. Maybe over time some of that will level itself out?
Someone asked, but I will again; how DO you fix that? Do you rake and smooth, then hope no wheels hit it until it hardens again? Do you run through it and create a tread with a machine? Do you just let it re-harden with the ruts and then hope wheels beat it down level?
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Post by Ross D on Apr 3, 2013 22:12:02 GMT -5
Did this guy have a permit from the forestry department? Seems like they'd be on this guy like white on rice.. One thing you can do is spread the word on all the forums around telling people what this guy has done.. Trust me, I'd never do a race that a promoter was putting on if I knew he had a "bad venue care" past.. It's bad for the sport and just selfish on his part..
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Post by Angela on Apr 3, 2013 22:17:13 GMT -5
It definitely won't be a one size fits all kind of repair and given the erosion causes by wheels churning up the soil and then the rain washing it away there are a lot of areas that will simply not be back to how they were before the event. A lot more exposed roots in some areas once the soil washed away. This is in a mostly flat area so you don't have the ability to just remove and smooth the trail down like you might on a side slope, this will need some filling in. Tires gouged the wet soil and then the hard rain did the rest by washing the soil away. This is hard to really see in the photo but the tires gouged out and shifted the soil, that is now a depression that will hold water. When you have a deep gouge like this in an area that is flat either filling it in once it is dry or filling with armoring material An area like this after everything is nice and dry will generally be resolved by a lot of wheels on the trail, unfortunately this trail does not get a lot of wheels over a course of a year so a heavier vehicle with a larger tire can do the rework in an area like this and basically mimic the effect of many bike tires over many months!
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Post by Angela on Apr 3, 2013 22:22:09 GMT -5
If you don't have a good device or computer to watch this on it won't give the full impact, hard to see on my computer but much clearer on the Ipad. The main purpose is to give a real feel for the fact that these are often long, long fields of damage not just intermittent 5 and 10 feet sections. Keep a close eye on the tread itself and you can see the rutting, gouging and erosion.
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Post by dsquaredmsquared on Apr 4, 2013 8:15:46 GMT -5
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Post by Angela on Apr 4, 2013 11:46:14 GMT -5
Well looking at the videos I will say it certainly explains what we saw when we walked the trail the very next weekend. Basically a set of wheels and 140 laps (70 riders X 2 laps) can really damage a very wet trail in short order. Disheartening when I think of the work ahead to restore this trail to even a semlance of what it was the day before this event.
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Post by dsquaredmsquared on Apr 4, 2013 12:44:35 GMT -5
XTERRA event @hksp - race promoter
SORBAcsra's president had a short, but cordial, conversation with Andy Kennedy (from Multisport Fitness LLC; contact info. below) last week. Essentially, Mr. Kennedy said that HKSP folks were there at the event and, despite the weather conditions that weekend, were O.K. with the event proceeding. In fact, the only thing that might have prevented the event was the thunder and lightning from earlier in the morning. Mr. Kennedy mentioned that he 'ran' the trail that morning and it seemed fine (I'm paraphrasing from memory). However, and having seen video from the event, that is hard to believe. Mr. Kennedy also mentioned that HKSP folks also knew about the trail conditions because (again, paraphrasing from memory) they were out there removing downed trees (that morning?, that weekend?, the previous month?). From the video, it looks like someone missed a few of the downed trees. Mr. Kennedy said he was familiar with SORBAcsra and our forum and that, when he gets a chance, he would take a look at the pictures we've posted showing trail damage.
To be fair, it is my understanding that HKSP did not include any language in the contract with this XTERRA race promoter regarding adverse weather conditions, damage to the trails(s), or having alternate routes to protect the trails from damage. Regardless, one would have hoped that the land manager and/or race promoter would have had an alternate plan/race route to protect the trails from damage. Moreover, it is not clear whether the larger XTERRA organization has a policy for adverse weather conditions and protecting the trails that they, their race promoters, and race participants use for these events.
If you decide to contact Mr. Kennedy to express your concern, disappointment, ask how they will be part of the solution to repair the trails at HKSP, or just convey your (un)willingness to participate in their other sponsored events, please do so politely.
HKSP XTERRA Race Promoter: Andy Kennedy Multisport Fitness, LLC 15 Governors Road Hilton Head Island, SC 29928 225-772-2737 multisportfit@aol.com
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