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Post by Angela on Jan 2, 2012 19:58:28 GMT -5
Set out this afternoon to take care of the tree down on Deep Step and the leaner on Great Wall that riders have created a bypass trail to avoid. Here is the leaner and note the bypass has been there long enough that the original trail is no longer visable - Since only USFS certified sawyers can cut on Forest Service land and we only have a limited number of sawyers, we schedule them as we can! The end result - original trail restored and bypass trail concealed so riders don't get confused when they reach this point! We took our chainsaw and gear and headed over to Deep Step to find the tree that was down on that trail. After hiking in nearly a half a mile we could not find the tree and a rider coming from the other direction reported there were no trees down on Deep Step past our location. Someone had apparently already taken care of the tree since last report (Saturday) and that is great but if we had known we could have moved on to take the one that is down on the north trails instead. If you are a regular forum reader and do handle moving a large tree off the trail yourself - a quick email to sorbacsra@gmail.com would be greatly appreciated!
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Post by brianW on Jan 9, 2012 6:01:57 GMT -5
One tree down on Tower, about 200ft going ccw toward the tower. say 8" but floating 6-12" off the ground. Easy to step over. 2nd one on BR going cw, I would say half way between the Tower connector and Split Rock. This is a large limb with a ride around forming. I couldn't budge either.
Both are in areas of with clear views of them. rode 1/8
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Post by Angela on Jan 16, 2012 18:34:14 GMT -5
Update - the tree on Big Rock and the one on Tower have been removed - Thanks Nevin! Also the women's bathroom at the FATs southern trail head had been vandalized so no one wanted to use it, USFS was notified and as of today the bathroom has been restored to great condition!
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Post by Angela on Jan 17, 2012 6:27:55 GMT -5
Just a reminder for all FATS trail users - only USFS chainsaw certified sawyers are allowed to cut trees that have fallen on the trails on US Forest Service land. Below are some pictures taken at the Skinny yesterday just after the 3rd power line crossing (going CW). And although certified sawyers can cut trees that have fallen across or into the trail, they are not allowed to fell trees (even if the trees appear to be diseased). Please make any suggestions or requests for trail maintenance or improvements to sorba.csra@gmail.com
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Post by dgaddis1 on Jan 17, 2012 6:54:13 GMT -5
Angela - did someone just cut those out? Or had they fallen/broke further up the tree?
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Post by Angela on Jan 17, 2012 7:09:06 GMT -5
Not sure Dustin but none of our certified sawyers have reported any work done on that trail so wanted to make sure we reminded people that you need to be certified to cut on USFS land.
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Post by oddcouple on Jan 18, 2012 20:21:57 GMT -5
Saw this when I rode Sunday,You can imagine what I said.....somebody in the group asked if SORBA did this.I said I do not think so.But if you read post that have been put on this forum in the past it does not take a rocket scientist(yes I know one) to figure out that this would seem OK.When you support people carrying pack saws to cut stuff away from the trails and we clear cut trails every year in some areas 4ft to 6ft wide this would seem OK.Stop this over grooming the trails now or this kinda stuff will keep happening more and more.You can not have your cake and eat it too.
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Post by txr on Jan 18, 2012 23:48:51 GMT -5
Wow. Why in the world was this done? I know that answer will probably remain unanswered but dang.
Question: when you say only certified sawyers..... does that mean a small folding handsaw is not allowed? I carry one at all times and if it can be cleared and is clearly not a rider I will use the hand saw to clear the tree. Is that not allowed?
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Post by Angela on Jan 19, 2012 7:32:00 GMT -5
I suspect you are right we will never know and there may be more to the story that lead to the action! No the certified sawyer requirement is for wielding a chainsaw. Especially with the burn being conducted, those small pine trees are frequently falling partially into the trail - the help is appreciated. The work that was done on those trees was clearly with a chainsaw. Although some riders truly do like rough, rugged trails with sticks poking you in the eye, ticks, stickers drawing blood, stinging nettles, etc........ on a trail like FATS where riders and runners will widen the trail to go around the smallest obstacles......they are kept fairly clear (we try to keep FATS and Bartram pretty clear and the majority of riders are very positive about their condition) - however, we do have plenty of trails that are much more rugged out there! In a couple of months one will be opening up that riders will feel like they are truly the trail pioneer (it is closed all winter). Fortunately events like this are pretty rare, just wanted to remind readers about the certification requirement - I'd like to think someone thought they were helping and since none of us have a picture just before these cuts were made we really don't know what this area looked like just before those cuts - had a much larger tree fallen into this area leaving dangerous conditions? Hard to say at this point - just wanted to remind readers of USFS requirements, we don't want to jeopardize our access to this land. If anyone does know or has an idea and wants to PM me.........
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Post by oddcouple on Jan 20, 2012 0:11:48 GMT -5
Although some riders truly do like rough, rugged trails with sticks poking you in the eye, ticks, stickers drawing blood, stinging nettles, etc........ on a trail like FATS where riders and runners will widen the trail to go around the smallest obstacles......they are kept fairly clear (we try to keep FATS and Bartram pretty clear and the majority of riders are very positive about their condition) - however, we do have plenty of trails that are much more rugged out there! In a couple of months one will be opening up that riders will feel like they are truly the trail pioneer (it is closed all winter). I don't think anyone has said they liked to get poked in the eye....there is a big difference in making a trail 4ft to 6ft wide just because it will grow up in a year.If you let parts grow in and keep them one pass wide with the DR..... 2ft wide it will keep people from riding around so much stuff.Why can't anyone find a happy medium.If they cut a log off the trail its not a 2ft cut its a 4ft or 6ft cut.Why does everything have to be taking to the extreme.If there is a tree top on the trail everything gets mowed down why not just wide enough to ride a bike.Single track supposed to be 18inch's why can't the single track in the CSRA be 18inch's?If people see that SORBA is cutting everything out why can't they. Bike riders are not the only people who work on the trails,but I would hope SORBA would set the standard.MONKEY SEE MONKEY DO.
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Post by Angela on Jan 20, 2012 7:35:55 GMT -5
I'll just give my perspective - maybe our professional trail builders will weigh in. I think the majority of the single track in the CSRA is 18 inches wide or just a little wider (except where people try to avoid an obstacle or if something (read anything) is on the trail. On the machine built trails that I have ridden they do tend to be wider than the classic 18 inch singletrack because of the way they are built and then over time as plants and small trees take root in the areas on the edge they become narrower (FATS falls into that category). That is very apparent on the part of Great Wall that I'll call The Squeeze - that short section was hand built and trees left closer to the trail. The rest of FATS has been filing in nicely over the past few years (in my opinion). Bartram was purposely built wider (at least on the old side) since it was built as a beginner trail but it too has filled in now and is much narrower. FATS is on a corridor about 4 foot wide. As time has moved along the trail has shifted slightly in more than one place within that 4 foot wide base - as long as everyone is shifting and following that same ribbon of trail it stays nice and tight. I think with few exceptions riders are doing a pretty good job of staying on the established trails. But honestly, if a branch from one of those small pines is down in the trail it doesn't take long at all before people are widening the trail right there to ride around the stick so yes I am going to stop and remove it. If you don't cut that sticker back to the ground or close too it then you are simply giving it a haircut and will continue to do so all spring, summer and early fall since they grow so quickly. If a trail needs to be choked for some reason sawyers have done that but to simply cut a 2 foot section out of every tree that falls across the trail doesn't make sense to me unless it is needed there. The riders are doing a good job staying in the center of the trail most of the time forcing them through a narrow cut doesn't seem to have much benefit as far as trail width to me and most of our sawyers are going to get them totally off the trail corridor when they take the time to go out there and cut. No work party we have ever had cutting back the foliage on both sides of the trail was intended to encourage riders to ride in the grassy area that was just cut (and I think they all or at least most riders get that ). Turkey and Wine are cut on both sides of the trail where we can because if you don't do it the foliage fills back in mid-way through the summer. I personally think SORBA does a pretty good job on trail maintenance and education and I think most riders get it and want to keep the singletrack single.
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Post by wooglin on Jan 20, 2012 9:05:39 GMT -5
If they cut a log off the trail its not a 2ft cut its a 4ft or 6ft cut. The 4-6ft log cuts allow emergency evacuation vehicle access, which is a good thing. Otherwise I'm in general agreement with your rant regarding trail over-maintenance. OTOH, I also recognize why they're maintained the way they are, which Angela outlined clearly, and don't worry about it too much.
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Post by oddcouple on Jan 20, 2012 14:10:23 GMT -5
The 4-6ft log cuts allow emergency evacuation vehicle access, which is a good thing. Otherwise I'm in general agreement with your rant regarding trail over-maintenance. OTOH, I also recognize why they're maintained the way they are, which Angela outlined clearly, and don't worry about it too much. Good point about emergency evacuation....I still think they can get in no matter what. I do not know why this picture was put on the forum if its not a big deal.Just because SORBA did not authorize the cutting?I don't not think this was done maliciously.The person or persons that did this,in their mind was doing good.We do not and may never know who did this.Yes I know the whats and whys of trail maintenance,others may not, they copy what they see, good are bad.I may not agree with everything,but I have never said that I do not appreciate SORBA they do the best they can,I just happen to think they may do just a little to much at times. ;D
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Post by Angela on Jan 20, 2012 17:33:07 GMT -5
Actually it is a big deal but that isn’t why the photo was posted. The photo was posted because if people are not very familiar with this trail system, they can’t always envision the point you are referring to so the photo was posted for identification purposes only. As far as the rest……..this has nothing to do with SORBA authorizing or not authorizing the cutting………this is about following the land manager’s rules. My post was strictly educational – it is imperative that we do everything possible to work within the US Forest Service guidelines we have been given since we do not want to jeopardize access to these trails. No one said or implied that this was done maliciously (unlike the whole women’s bathroom issue ). And just an interesting side note, for every person out there who thinks we do too much in terms of trail maintenance, there are at least as many if not more who think we should be doing more. Every trail is not going to suit every rider, walker, runner, dog-walker, etc. The cool thing about the CSRA is that we pretty much have it all. We have the fast, flowy, hard-packed ribbons of dirt crossing FATS that you can hit hard and sustain good speed all the way around without much worry and we have trails that you can barely find…….. that are very rough, rugged and primitive with all the poison ivy, nettles, ticks, sticks, leaves, holes, etc a primitive trail connoisseur could hope for………..something for everyone!
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Post by oddcouple on Jan 21, 2012 0:39:51 GMT -5
As far as the rest……..this has nothing to do with SORBA authorizing or not authorizing the cutting………this is about following the land manager’s rules. My post was strictly educational – it is imperative that we do everything possible to work within the US Forest Service guidelines we have been given since we do not want to jeopardize access to these trails. Guilty until proven innocent.The fact is nobody knows what the trail looked like before this happen.The trees could have been all over the trail. SORBA members are not the only persons Chainsaw Certified.
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Post by Angela on Jan 21, 2012 1:21:00 GMT -5
You are absolutely right - could well have been a USFS chainsaw certified person, could have been a member of the US Forest Service - my message wasn't intended for them! Case closed
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Post by oddcouple on Jan 21, 2012 10:00:41 GMT -5
You are absolutely right - could well have been a USFS chainsaw certified person, could have been a member of the US Forest Service - my message wasn't intended for them! Case closed
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Post by Ted S. on Jan 27, 2012 18:07:50 GMT -5
Did big rock and tower the other day. A bunch of trees have been removed since the last time I went through. Thanks to whom evers is responsible. There is a couple of new ones down on tower, I couldn't move them alone. One is a leaner right at the top of the big "S" turn on tower. and continuing around tower CCW there is another across the trail about half mile latter. I removed a bunch of small stuff but those 2 couldn't be moved alone.
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Post by dgaddis1 on Jan 30, 2012 7:50:11 GMT -5
I rode Great Wall and Skinny yesterday. Both in good shape. A lot of dips were a little mushy at the bottom, all of the ones that were need to be nicked so they can drain, then they should be fine. I think there was only 1 spot with standing water, and that was on (I think) the first powerline crossing on Skinny.
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Post by Angela on Jan 30, 2012 12:54:30 GMT -5
We took an early evening spin on Brown Wave yesterday and where Steve and Eric had cleaned out the drains by and large they were very firm and clear. Thanks so much guys it made such a huge difference with that rain we had!
Filling that one persistent red mud puddle with rocks also helped, that was a pretty slick area.
Trail itself in great condition with just a few mushy spots along the way that should clear up this week.
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