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Post by neal1975 on Feb 23, 2011 20:00:11 GMT -5
Lets start a discussion. I didnt search for a thread already on this because im lazy.
What do the locals think about the huge myriad of sports products and specifically cycling supplements . . . sports beans, cytomax, accelrade, accellgel, the list is long . . .. choose your favorite.
Is it really worth the $ ? What is the difference to you between a 2 dollar pack of acell gel and 4-5 fig newtons (25 cents).
Whats the difference to you between cytomax and cheap-o gatorade?
I have been experimenting lately with just eating common food on the trail, and skipping the trips to the sporting goods store for the rip off sports products - and havent really missed it, and havent really been able to tell the difference to be honest.
I stop and eat a bannana and maybe some peanut butter (30 cents) and feel just about the same i think -
I really think alot of it is all in your head and brillant marketing and packageing. (yeh sure - lance armstrong is drinking michelobs every night between rides, etc... )
Please discuss.
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Post by brianW on Feb 24, 2011 6:09:26 GMT -5
I like sportbeans, however last time I went to the store I compared the nutrition of them vs. regular Jelly Belly's. The carbs/proteins/calories . were all about the same. Price was in favor of the jelly Belly's
As far as the sports drinks, most of the stuff is to sweet. HEED is about the only one that I would spend the extra money on. I tend to just get oj from the frig and water it down. Works fine with me.
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Post by dgaddis1 on Feb 24, 2011 7:45:40 GMT -5
Try different stuff, what works for one person will give someone else the runs. Not all sugars are created equal. So even tho two products may have the same amount of carbs, the type of sugars may be different. Lot of good nerdy nutritional reading info here: www.hammernutrition.com/knowledge/ I've been using Gatorade Pro Series lately, works really well for me. Only available at GNC. I get the powder. I only mix it at about half strength tho, otherwise it's WAY too sweet. It's got carbs and electrolytes (some drinks only have one or the other). I've used HEED and didn't really like it. The taste was too subtle, tasted more like I had used a sports drink on the previous ride and didn't wash the bottle/bladder out well enough afterwards. For long rides and races (3+hrs) I use the drink mix in my camelbak and gels for additional fuel. With the drink mix in the camelbak, as long as I remember to sip on it every so often, I get a nice steady intake of carbs/electrolytes. I try and get a gel every 45mins or so. I like the gels because they're easy to eat when you're heartrate is up and you're breathing hard. And you can eat them quickly, no need to chew. Using a gel flask makes it even easier, and means no risk of dropping an empty package on the trail. Gel is cheaper when you buy the bottle instead of the individual packs too. For 2-3hr rides I'll drink water and take a gel with me. Anything under 2hrs is just plain water. And if you use a drink mix in your camelbak, be sure to clean the bladder out as soon as possible. You can leave plain water in there for days with no issue, but anything with sugar will get funky fast if you don't clean it, and it can get funky enough that you can't get rid of the funk. Ask me how I know....
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Post by Macho Retro on Feb 24, 2011 8:24:49 GMT -5
Hammer Nutrition= legit Education below. Talk to someone who actually uses all this product and can give an educated explanation. Brad at Chain Reaction is the best source for this information. He can not only tell you what the ingredients can do, he can tell you why and how the body uses them. Not just a " use it, it works, I'm not sure how" answer. Dustin is right, testing is the best way to find out if it's for you. www.hammernutrition.com/knowledge/
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Post by Mark Y on Feb 24, 2011 12:42:41 GMT -5
For the average weekend warrior all of these supplements are snake oil. I do find some of the gels useful for an energy shot, but they may also give me a cramp that sends me to the closest place to squat. I had just as soon have a Clif Bar, oatmeal pie or whatever. Jon Taylor has an excellent pick-me-up; a Payday Bar. Sugar for immediate energy and peanuts for sustaining it. Powerbars are good too,ias long as you can get them on the cheap. Remember the Ironman? Riders were asking for water 5-1 or more over powerade. There is a good reason for that.
If you ARE that go all out, pedal to the metal guy, then electrolyte replacement and other supplements may have some benefit.
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Post by dgaddis1 on Feb 24, 2011 12:59:25 GMT -5
Remember the Ironman? Riders were asking for water 5-1 or more over powerade. There is a good reason for that. 2 reasons actually. 1 - they probably already had their mix of choice, with a baggie of powder with them to mix with water. Or they're getting their nutrition via solid foods, not liquid. Don't try new stuff on race day. 2 - that powerade was really sweet! Tasted like pure sugar water. I can't imagine trying to drink that stuff while putting out an effort. But yeah, you're right, for most rides you don't need anything other than water and maybe a candy bar.
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Post by mhanna on Feb 24, 2011 15:15:44 GMT -5
+1 on Brad. He knows his stuff on the nutrition side and especially the Hammer products cause he has used and tested them for years.
Dustin is right. It is all relative though. Just riding, most anything will do as long as your getting hydrated and have some nutrition.
Epic rides and racing events are entirely different story. Proper nutrition and supplements are essential to perform at that intensity level over that long a period of time.
I can't drink enough in the heat to avoid cramping on rides longer than 3 hours. Hammer endurolytes have made a world of difference in my ability to go longer in the heat without cramping.
I don't like solid food when I'm hot and on a long ride so the sustained energy powder mix allows me to go for 5-8 hours without eating and bonking.
Nothing I've tried makes my legs come alive and stay fresh like hammer gels. It astounds me how well that stuff works. Montana Huckleberry is like eating candy.
The reason they have so many different products is because this is America and we Americans like choices!
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Post by dgaddis1 on Feb 24, 2011 15:28:58 GMT -5
I don't like solid food when I'm hot and on a long ride so the sustained energy powder mix allows me to go for 5-8 hours without eating and bonking. Nothing I've tried makes my legs come alive and stay fresh like hammer gels. It astounds me how well that stuff works. Montana Huckleberry is like eating candy. The reason they have so many different products is because this is America and we Americans like choices! Speaking of heat: ....Now you can probably understand why eating while riding becomes more challenging on hotter days, even for well trained athletes. Blood volume may be enough to support digestion and muscular work, but not enough to support digestion, muscular work and cooling. Endurance training in the heat will cause a further increase in plasma volume beyond that caused by endurance training in pleasant weather, but won't be enough to completely negate the effect of heat on performance...
www.cyclingnews.com/features/cyclingnews-fitness-q-and-a-february-24-2011
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Post by Mark Y on Feb 24, 2011 17:17:22 GMT -5
Good points Dustin, I've made the mistake of eating an Egg McMuffin or such right before riding on a hot day and getting nauseated w/in 20 minutes of setting out. For those that don't know, that is part of why you get drowsy after lunch; your body is directing resources to digestion that normally keep your brain and muscles sharp.
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Post by neal1975 on Feb 24, 2011 18:35:27 GMT -5
Thats another good question-
What do you eat before you ride? How soon? I have been reading that you shouldnt eat anything at ALL 1-2 hours before you ride to give your stomach plenty of time to digest it and convert it to fuel / blood sugars, whatever-
Do you eat a carb heavy meal before you ride, or do you include some protein? Alot of time i eat 6 eggs and eat a cup of cheerios and a bannana in the car on the way to the trails. I tend to eat a bananna about an hour into the ride too.
I have tried those hammer gels and they do give you a little kick. Kinda pricey though, but such is life-
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Post by Mark Y on Feb 25, 2011 0:07:46 GMT -5
What you are eating sounds fine, you might want to just eat it sooner. There are some researchers touting protein loading as being more beneficial than the traditional belief about carbohydrate loading. Hydrating AHEAD of time is equally important. Again though, it isn't rocket science for the more casual rider; the ones doing high miles or racing have to be more tedious in balancing nutrition and hydration to maintain energy. Peanut butter and jelly is an excellent pre-ride meal. Something sugary AND slow digesting is good on the trail; oatmeal pies come to mind. You get an instant shot of glucose, but the oatmeal is fibrous and slower digesting to maintain your glucose at normal levels rather than it bottoming out after the sugar spike. Various flavors of Clif Bars do the same as do Power Bars.
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Post by neal1975 on Feb 25, 2011 0:20:11 GMT -5
man you love you some oatmeal pies huh ? im gettin hungry
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Post by Macho Retro on Feb 25, 2011 7:16:18 GMT -5
I'd suggest you people go talk to someone with some actual knowledge. All of the sugary, refined, processed foods that you are talking about is great if you like peaks and valleys in your blood sugar. Even for short rides. The goal is nice and steady energy. Once again, here www.hammernutrition.com/knowledge/ are the real answers to the questions you asked Neal. Not the standard MTBR forums Speculative answers and mis-information. Not trying to put anyone down, just trying to make sure PROPER information gets out there so we don't all look like the bunch of amateurs that we are.
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Post by jp3 on Feb 25, 2011 7:54:49 GMT -5
Okay Dustin I'll ask: How do you know your camelback will get real funky if you don't clean it out after you leave sugary stuff in it for days?
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Post by stumpbumper on Feb 25, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
degaddis1 made a really good point in stating that what works for one person can be disastrous for another. The time to experiment with various drinks, foods and supplements is during your general riding and not during a race or any other long-distance event.
The pre-ride breakfast that works best for me is oatmeal, a banana and a glass of orange juice. I can eat that and be on the trail within the hour without feeling overstuffed.
For rides no longer than two hours, I eat nothing during the ride and drink only water, 25-30 ounces per hour, sometimes more if it is extremely hot. If your urine is dark yellow in color after a ride it means you failed to drink enough.
For rides that I know will exceed two hours in duration, I alternate between a bottle of water and a bottle of sports drink on the hour. The best brand of sports drink will vary among individuals. I use lime-flavored Accelerade. Price-shop locally and online---late last summer I bought two 60-serving sizes for the price of one.
I reserve my hydration bladder only for water and carry a water bottle in a cage on the frame of my bike for sports drink. I carry individual servings of sports drink powder in the little "snack-size" zip-lock bags. When the bottle becomes empty, I dump in the powder and top off with water from my hydration bladder.
My favorite lunch snack on the trail is a peanut butter sandwich (Jif extra-crunchy, please). In a small zip-lock bag I often carry a mix of nuts, dried fruit, miniature marshmallows, M&Ms, etc. (less expensive to mix your own rather than buying pre-mixed). On rides that exceed four hours, I munch on small quantities of energy bar about every 15 minutes. I usually carry Clif Bars and PowerBars with (you guessed it) crunchy peanut butter for the former and peanut butter for the latter my favorites. On the longer rides I probably average eating about one bar per hour, sometimes a tad more.
Gels are great when I need a burst of energy because the sugar gets into the bloodstream more quickly than when eating solid food. When I am riding a century on the road and feel a bonk coming on with a few miles left to go a gel (or two) will keep me going, I have tried several and am now using the one from PowerBar (the tangerine and vanilla flavors are especially nice).
Since I sweat a lot, cramping in my legs can be a serious problem on rides much longer than 3-4 hours, especially during the heat of summer. I used to carry small cans of tomato juice because of the high salt content plus I enjoy the taste but it is a bit heavy and bulky. I now use Endurolytes capsules from Hammer Nutrition. A day’s supply is light and easily carried in a 35mm film canister. They really work for me. Recommended dosage will vary with body weight but through trial and error I have found that taking three just before a ride, three every hour during the ride and three at the end of the ride works best for me.
My favorite recovery drink immediately after a long ride is chocolate milk.
Happy trails everyone. ;D ;D
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Post by wooglin on Feb 25, 2011 12:57:47 GMT -5
I love peaks and valleys in my blood sugar. And pie. I like pie.
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Post by Angela on Feb 25, 2011 18:50:32 GMT -5
Okay Dustin I'll ask: How do you know your camelback will get real funky if you don't clean it out after you leave sugary stuff in it for days? Won't speak for Dustin of course but the one time I put a sugared sports drink in my Camelbak and forgot to rinse it out afterward - a couple of hot days later my drinking tube looked like a science experiment with gross black stuff clinging to the inside of the tube
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Post by mccuthe1 on Feb 26, 2011 10:19:23 GMT -5
Nuun makes a good electrolite tablet you drop in a water bottle. The drink is a little fizzy so its good to let it rattle around in your acge before you drink it but it is not very sweet or sticky. Like many other posters have said, gels are okay for quick fixes but can mess with your stomach if you take several of them over several hours. Snickers bars for me if I am out for over two hours.
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Post by Mark Y on Feb 26, 2011 17:41:22 GMT -5
I'd suggest you people go talk to someone with some actual knowledge. All of the sugary, refined, processed foods that you are talking about is great if you like peaks and valleys in your blood sugar. Even for short rides. The goal is nice and steady energy. Once again, here www.hammernutrition.com/knowledge/ are the real answers to the questions you asked Neal. Not the standard MTBR forums Speculative answers and mis-information. Not trying to put anyone down, just trying to make sure PROPER information gets out there so we don't all look like the bunch of amateurs that we are. And I would suggest the average weekend warrior (non serious rider) as I described before; go ahead and waste their money on science intended for the serious athlete if they so wish. What you reckon people did before Gatorade and Hammer?
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Post by Mark Y on Feb 26, 2011 18:04:44 GMT -5
Nuun makes a good electrolite tablet you drop in a water bottle. The drink is a little fizzy so its good to let it rattle around in your acge before you drink it but it is not very sweet or sticky. Like many other posters have said, gels are okay for quick fixes but can mess with your stomach if you take several of them over several hours. Snickers bars for me if I am out for over two hours. Contrary to some opinions, your Snickers Bar is actually a pretty good snack. It has a glycemic index of 55, which tends to not spike your blood sugar, and hangs around a little longer. Oatmeal pies do the same, giving you the instant boost from the sugar filling and a sustained boost from the the oatmeal cake (oatmeal GI is 58, not too bad for lasting fuel. For the unfamiliar, straight glucose has a GI of 100, the standard by which other foods are measured. Those on the high end of the scale are commonly known as "empty" calories that do nothing but give you an instant glucose pop that will lead to a glucose drop shortly thereafter if you don't have something with it to sustain and stabilize your blood glucose. White rice, white potato, white bread, raisins are all poor foods for sustaining energy. Someone else said: Bottom line is do what works for you in maintaining energy, and hydration is a universal requirement for everyone.
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