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Post by bobsimmons on Nov 13, 2014 20:55:54 GMT -5
To whom it may concern
I must say i have been riding bikes for 30 plus years Been to the Grands in Kentucky for NBL Was a member of the Aiken Bike club financially supported SORBA and IMBA was riding FATS in the fall of 2007 was at the Summit in 2010 enjoyed the ribbon cutting of the now history pump track and have met some awesome people Bill Victor you rock even when I was wrong you politely say hey buddy where is you orange vest. Yetti Chick and her husband supper people. I really didn't think you could meet A bad person on a bike. Until Last Sunday what a beautiful day it was. Warm sun beautiful golden leaves and a parking lot full of mountain bikers what could go wrong. Dropped into skinney around brown wave then back to the parking lot. Well that rock garden right after the sharp dogleg left had been rerouted. I thought that's a bummer cause always like the challenge of that spot. Well my friend and I stopped to look at this spot And noticed a rider coming down the trail so we cleared the trail for this rider well he decided to be matcho man and take the old line which didn't end up well for him. He turned around and came back and told us we were blocking his line and I said I believe SORBA has created a new line and stated the sign says to stay on the trail. He began a rather loud argument and stated he was a SORBA trail maintainer and he new what he was doing. So I told him that I knew the old line since I have rode there since the early days and have a awesome day. In which he said i quote your a F____ing idiot and had no clew what I was talking about. Well my buddy and I continued to the parking lot loaded up and talked to several riders about there ride. Then this guy comes out of the trail and I'm thinking well he has cooled down and he is coming to apologize for the jerk he was boy was I wrong He comes up to the car and very loudly says hey you F____ing moron if you been riding these trails so long how come I have never seen you before you probably don't even no what SORBA is why haven't I seen you at a work party he kept circling and cussing all the while everybody in the parking lot Ladies and Kids were like what is wrong with him I must say in my 55 years of life I have never met a bigger jerk. I finally asked him if he was going to let me talk and he said sure go for it. I told him I didn't care to use the colorful words that he was yelling out And was going to use as polite of word I could to tell him he was a Jerk. If this is the Kind of people we have in offices IN SORBA I will be keeping my money And sure hope to never see this Jerk again
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Post by money on Nov 14, 2014 4:41:34 GMT -5
I hate that you had to experience that while on your ride last Sunday. Hopefully whomever the offender was, has had a chance to reflect on their behavior, and will make an effort to apologize for their actions. I am a SORBA member, so I do hope that the actions of one person doesn't change the way that you feel about SORBA as a whole.
I would also have serious doubts as far as this person actually being involved with SORBA. Everyone that I have ever had the pleasure to ride with, work beside, or just casually talk to that were /are SORBA members have always been very nice people that I could not see behaving this way out on a trail, much less in public (parking area). Just my 2 cents.
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Post by dsquaredmsquared on Nov 14, 2014 8:46:01 GMT -5
To whom it may concern ...If this is the Kind of people we have in offices IN SORBA I will be keeping my money And sure hope to never see this Jerk again I don't think your interaction was with a SORBA or SORBAcsra officer. Regardless, if you would like to discuss further please contact me (my info. is on SORBAcsra.org). Dave President, SORBAcsra
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Post by dgaddis1 on Nov 14, 2014 9:07:09 GMT -5
The person was Marco (I know this because he told this story at the monthly meeting), and he is no way a reflection of the vast majority of MTBers, OR SORBA-CSRA. He is a long time SORBA-CSRA member, may have been an officer in the past (I'm not sure on that), but doesn't even live here anymore, at least not full time.
The "new" line wasn't built, it was ridden in by people avoiding the rocks. But that doesn't give anyone an excuse to be a jerk like that.
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Post by bobsimmons on Nov 14, 2014 9:21:28 GMT -5
Dave Thanks I would very much like to discus this further. Like I said this guy was telling me I didn't no anything about SORBA and there meeting which I have been in and out of sorba since 2007. I honestly thought this guy was on drugs or drunk. He claims to come to your regular meeting I also know Drew Jordan knows this guy so maybe I can get a name Feel free to contact me at bsimm13623@aol.com and maybe we can exchange phone numbers. I really don't want to post Phone info here for fear of this individual tracking me down. I have never ran into this anywhere I have rode a lot of place most people would give you there last tube in there pack myself included and now I fear going back to the trail head for running into this crazy individual. I really thought he was going to get physical at one point and since I am a CWP holder and always carry did not want that to happen. Look forward to hearing from you
Bob
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Post by bobsimmons on Nov 14, 2014 9:34:34 GMT -5
dgaddis1
So was his story told as I told it or was it completely different version I know at least 3 people came up to me and asked what is wrong with that guy he is over there slamming doors and cussing you out like a crazy man really all i could do was laugh at the man cause I have never seen any grown man act so childish. I also tried to tell the story as close to how it happened leaving out a vast portion of his child like behaviors I honestly could not even get a word in to explain my side for him going off on another cussing rampage.
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Post by bobsimmons on Nov 14, 2014 9:41:06 GMT -5
I would also like SORBA input to the correct line of that feature because I to like to attempt the rocks because it is a challenge but also honor SORBA work they have done and so which is the correct line around the rocks over the rocks or either. I would hope either but will Honor your decision Also we cleared the trail for either route for said marco but he didn't fare to well so he thought he would take it out on us.
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Post by dgaddis1 on Nov 14, 2014 10:03:22 GMT -5
dgaddis1 So was his story told as I told it or was it completely different version I know at least 3 people came up to me and asked what is wrong with that guy he is over there slamming doors and cussing you out like a crazy man really all i could do was laugh at the man cause I have never seen any grown man act so childish. I also tied to tell the story as close to how it happened leaving out a vast portion of his child like behaviors I honestly could not even get a word in to explain my side for him going off on another cussing rampage. He pretty much told the same story you did, except he said you refused to move out of his way. I don't want to speak on behalf of SORBA as I'm just a member like everyone else, not an officer or anything, but the correct line is over the roots and rocks. The alternate line shouldn't exist. There's a whole discussion about the 'dumbing down of FATS' that one spot is a great example, as it's one of the very select few remotely technical challenges on all 37 miles of trail, and yet the majority of riders go around it. That's another discussion (one that's been had over and over again). In summary:
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Post by bobsimmons on Nov 14, 2014 10:33:17 GMT -5
I assure you when we saw him coming down the trail which we are stopped off our bikes looking at the old line discussing how much fun the original line is even have a lot of video footage going through the rocks. we gave him more than enough room to enter either or line. Which he entered the original line got part way through before it got ugly. Maybe he felt like we were supposed to clear 10 yrds either side that we did not do. I still believe in talking to people like they are some one and not a piece of trash. And the scene he made in the parking lot truly not appropriate I honestly thought he was coming over to apologize not to continue his cussing rampage at the top of his voice.
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Post by seenvic on Nov 14, 2014 10:34:29 GMT -5
I would also like SORBA input to the correct line of that feature because I to like to attempt the rocks because it is a challenge but also honor SORBA work they have done and so which is the correct line around the rocks over the rocks or either. I would hope either but will Honor your decision Also we cleared the trail for either route for said marco but he didn't fare to well so he thought he would take it out on us. The real line is over the rocks. That is where the trail was built. The sign saying "stay on the trail" was put there before the new line below the rocks was formed by riders who took upon themselves to create a line they could ride because they didn't have the ability to ride the rock line. SORBA did not build the line below or above the rocks. If your description of Marco's behavior is accurate, he was out of line. I walk things all the time I don't have the ability to ride. Others should too.
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Post by bobsimmons on Nov 14, 2014 10:50:46 GMT -5
seenvic
Long time no see miss seeing you on the trail and your reprimands all done in the right way. My description of Marco left out a lot of the Foul language that this individual used. I told him that I chose to not use the colorful words he chose. Being a sailor i have a wide range of foul words I could have used. He just circled again and said oh are you one of those Christian mother F_____ers. The only thing that I have heard from above post is that possible we didn't give him the room he wanted but we didn't refuse to move. I think we have met each other enough to no I will be the first to clear the trail for you to pass by. Even if you do want to ask me where my orange vest is HA HA. I felt bad for all the out of town riders that was in the parking lot that day they were asking me does that go on up here a lot which I told them never had that problem until today and have been riding FATS since 2007.
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Post by seenvic on Nov 14, 2014 11:03:43 GMT -5
Sorry to hear the incident occurred and escalated to the level it did.
I know both guys and find it unfortunate.
If I am guessing right, you were probably standing "in the way on the rocks" because you never see anyone ride that line over the rocks. Hence you stood where you thought the rider would not be going. That is best I can figure for having not been there.
The last time I rode FATS I got to this point and didn't even know where I was. I knew we didn't build a line below those rocks. I was behind another rider who isn't local, and he came to a stop and so did I. I recall saying "where are we", and then realized to a great level of disappointment that our flow over the line on the rocks was ruined by the most obvious line my out of friend saw but wasn't sure where to ride.
And that is the problem with multiple lines. They always migrate to the easier line and riders don't see anything but the easy line and difficult line goes away.
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Post by bobsimmons on Nov 14, 2014 11:13:30 GMT -5
Seenvic
Both lines were clear. Now in Marcos defense maybe he didn't have as much room as he wanted but assure you there was more than enough room for him to enter over the rocks because that is the line he rode. So no we were not blocking that line. But even if to act like THAT never in my life have I seen or heard a grown man act this way. A 6 year old maybe but a grown man. Is this guy really the JERK he portrayed that day or was he just having a bad day???
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Post by bobsimmons on Nov 14, 2014 12:21:14 GMT -5
SORBA President Dave
It sounds to me that the individual is in fact a member and a active member at that. If he attends a meeting and freely discusses this situation. If this is the case I'm sorry but unfortunately I will not be able to support IMBA SORBA in the future. I also find it hard to believe that if this individual came to a meeting and discussed it and portrayed it in the way it happened that he was not told that his behavior was not exceptable. I do look forward to hearing from you to rectify this because I am a firm believer IN IMBA -SORBA and wish to continue to support it financially.
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Post by bobsimmons on Nov 14, 2014 12:32:37 GMT -5
dgaddis1
I am glad to hear you say that MARCO is no way a reflection of the vast majority of the SORBA IMBA members up until this day I have never met nicer friendlier bunch of people from the Grands in Kentucky to southern states and everywhere in between.
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Post by dsquaredmsquared on Nov 14, 2014 17:37:57 GMT -5
SORBA President Dave It sounds to me that the individual is in fact a member and a active member at that... I do look forward to hearing from you to rectify this because I am a firm believer IN IMBA -SORBA and wish to continue to support it financially. It seems that this is an unfortunate situation all around. I haven't read the whole thread so I don't know what you want rectified. I'm not his mother, nor the trail police. Feel free to email me your phone number and we can discuss further. If one bad trail interaction is enough for you to paint all of IMBA-SORBA with the same brush, including the 2,000 volunteer hours we have in our trails this year, then you are free to do as you wish with your support (however, it seems that your two most recent contributions to IMBA-SORBA were in 2009 and 2010). Alternatively, you can keep supporting IMBA-SORBA 'financially' or be part of the solution and come to our monthly meetings, participate in our rides/events, or volunteer for a work party.
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Post by bobsimmons on Nov 14, 2014 18:58:47 GMT -5
Dave As far as coming to your monthly meeting and being part of the solution I work a crazy 12 hour shift and I am usually working the second Tuesday of the month. And personally would not want to see this person again. Yes you are correct as I have only been a member for those two years but the money dropped in drop boxes at trail heads of FATS lick fork Harbison and others surpasses what I contributed in those two years. I have rode in some events such as lock to lock and best Dam ride in the past and official work party's no I haven't due to my crazy schedule but I to have spent many hours with hand loppers in hand pruning back tick magnets. I think IMBA SORBA And SORBA csra have done a awesome job in promoting some super trails in the CSRA and in the southern states. I was just a little embarrassed how this so called SORBA member was conducting himself on the trails and in front of others in a public parking lot. And must add did not no what he might try as far as physical harm Just seemed like a drug crazed idiot to me
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Post by bobsimmons on Nov 15, 2014 9:58:27 GMT -5
The only rectification I would hope for is going along with Moneys reply to this thread is that the individual would have time to reflect on his actions and go out of his way to say man I was wrong for going off like that. I honestly thought thats why he was coming over to my vehicle at the end of his ride to do just that but I was seriously wrong. I have no problem saying hey man I m sorry I didnt give you the room you needed to take the original line which he took. Just could not believe his actions.
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Post by Angela on Nov 16, 2014 10:02:22 GMT -5
I want to start by saying we, mountain bikers, are essentially invisible as we head off into the woods because even with a parking lot full of trucks and cars you likely will only pass a handful of riders on a busy day on our trails. USFS and other land managers need to know we are here, that we will help maintain these trails and that we do represent a large user group. SORBA has 38 chapters across the southeast and represents about 4,000 mountain bikers across I believe, 8 states now. Locally our numbers typically hang around 150 members. Does that fairly represent our local riders across the CSRA? No I don't think it does. I personally think every mountain biker who rides our local trails should join SORBAcsra. We are the face of mountain biking to all the land managers we work with (county, state and federal). Some land managers across the nation have been doing trail assessments in order to ascertain which trails or areas should be closed down simply because they don't have the manpower or funds any longer to maintain them any longer. We have to actively let our local land managers know we are committed to helping preserve and maintain these trails (and in some cases build more trail) and that we are in it for the long haul. This group IMBA>SORBA>CSRA is a VERY diverse group of people but it is not a club. It is an advocacy group whose primary mission is to create, preserve and enhance mountain biking experiences and the core of that revolves around trails (building and maintaining). Mountain bikers as a group are, in my opinion, some of the best people you will ever meet. That said I can tell you that over the years there have definitely been incidents with people in the group (as there are in any grouping of people). I am often stunned that such a diverse group can actual work together as well as it does because any time you have a passionate group of people and multiple solutions to a problem, there are bound to be conflicts. I was not there to witness what happened but it sounds as if he was definitely out of line - maybe to the point you should have called the Sheriff's department if you felt threatened! It is unlikely you will receive an apology from him. He lives elsewhere now and is only around two or three months out of each year. He generally only comes to the meetings if he had something that in his mind needs to be addressed. I was at the meeting last week and the incident was not relayed in the way you indicated it happened - it was relayed that due to an illegal bypass trail that had been established, a rider argued with him that that the illegal trail was the actual trail not the true line that goes over the rocks and roots. He in no way made it sound like he was acting belligerent or inappropriate to the other trail user. No this is not the way we would want any of our members to act with another member or any other trail user. Can we control a member who gets out of hand? No unfortunately we cannot. Was he representing SORBAcsra at that point in time? No he was not. Some members might have stopped to explain that an illegal bypass trail had developed but that the actual trail was the line over the roots and rocks. They know that USDA Forest Service must approve any bypass trails (which can sometimes take months or even years as the process goes through many levels of approval sometimes requiring a NEPA evaluation for impact on the forest before moving forward). I do apologize that he choose to invoke the SORBA name in an altercation with another trail user, he certainly was not representing the chapter in this case. I will tell you that in our group of approximately 150 members - we are constantly working to find compromises but somehow we manage to stick together for the greater good. Even among people who don't agree there is a lot of respect for each other and that core is vital to our existence. I've been heavily involved in the organization for over a decade and support it financially and with many hours of volunteer work and would not do so if I didn't fully understand the value not only to myself personally because I love our trails but for all mountain bikers who use these trails. There are people who say they don't want to join IMBA>SORBA>CSRA because a particular person is a member (not that they ever have to spend time with that particular member if they choose not to), some that don't want to join because they say that IMBA is dumbing down the trails, or others who don't want to join because they think it's too hard core. Face it a person can always find an excuse not to join/support an organization. But maybe the point is to find a reason TO join/support the organization particularly when that organization works with the land managers, helps build the trails, organizes work parties to maintain the trails, invests in equipment and tools, and on and on with only a force of volunteers (all with very busy lives of their own). All of that effort takes a lot of time and often expensive equipment. Without an organized effort after the ice storm this Spring, FATS would likely still be closed. Well over 1,000 trees were removed from the trails (and since the USDA Forest Service has been hit with lower staff levels and funding cuts, I suspect that without our handful of volunteers who took the time and effort to become USDA Forest Service certified chain sawyers (the only sawyers allowed to cut on USDAFS land) and some additional dedicated volunteers, those trees would mostly still be down on the trails right now. Our chapter normally books just over 1,000 man hours per year on our local trails (and it is never enough). This year, due to the ice storm and a large event, our chapter has already logged over 2,000 hours working on the local trails. The fact that you might not like every person within the chapter and the fact that you might not agree with every single thing the organization does doesn't take away from the one fact that if you are a mountain biker that rides the trails in this area, you have benefited from the efforts of this chapter. So it would be greatly appreciated if you could show your support by joining. $30 a year is a small price to pay (in my opinion) for knowing that you are financially helping to support your local mountain biking chapter whose volunteers are working tirelessly with land managers on current and future issues and working hard to keep all 150 miles of singletrack trails preserved and maintained. In addition to that as time allows, your presence at a work party would be very welcomed, it takes a lot of work to keep so much singletrack maintained. I realize this is long (everyone has their strengths and unfortunately brevity is not one of mine) and most people would have grown weary of reading by now but if you are still with me, take a few minutes to click this IMBA link and join the Augusta, GA and Aiken, SC (CSRA) chapter ($30 for the basic membership) - become part of the solution and at least support us financially if you are unable to come out and help at a work party. Your membership and subsequent renewals are greatly appreciated and while you might not like everyone in the chapter and you might not agree with everything that is done, you will be helping to preserve our incredible network of mountain bike trails in the CSRA! Thank you! Angela Allen SORBAcsra Communications
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Post by bobsimmons on Nov 16, 2014 11:26:12 GMT -5
Angela
Your post was a very interesting read and very much changed my perspective on the whole thing. I did actually think SORBA had built the reroute and was some what bummed about it because I liked the the original line. When I tried to explain this the individual in question it got out of hand and instead of a confrontation I chose to wish him a great ride and moved on to which he said your a f______ing idiot. I had already checked into renewing my membership and will probable be doing the 50 or 100.00 membership thanks for sharing and your time.
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