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Post by brando on Jun 12, 2013 20:38:28 GMT -5
My buddy and I rode this trail for the first time today and we won't ride it again until a chainsaw burns a tank of gas on it. Big trees down everywhere. Probably 10 places where you have to climb over and through. They totally killed what little flow there was. Other than the trees the trail was in pretty good shape. The creeks all had water but surprisingly very few muddy places. The roots were real slick tho. I have a chainsaw but would rather not hike the 10 miles with it. Though it may come to that. This trail needs more riders.
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Post by deano on Jun 12, 2013 21:17:17 GMT -5
I agree it was brutal ride with all the debree and trees down. I'd love to see this trail brought back to its former glory. We would have deff enjoyed ourself could we have gotta a good flow going. Most technical trail I've tried.. If anybody willing to do so hiking when the weather isn't favorable to rode let me know. I'd love to meet up with a few folks to try and put a dent it what it needs.
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Post by jtaylor on Jun 13, 2013 10:52:05 GMT -5
Thanks for the update- I presume the downed trees are spread throughout the length of the trail? I am the "trail champion" for Modoc and was planning to cut trees this last weekend but between rain and lack of help it didn't get done. Since this trail is on Forest Service land, you need to be "chainsaw certified" by the FS. Also keep in mind that I have left a number of trees on purpose so you can practice your log-hopping skills. Send me an email- jtaylor@sorba.org and we'll plan a work party.
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Post by dgaddis1 on Jun 13, 2013 12:14:57 GMT -5
Glad to hear of some folks riding Modoc, my favorite trail in town for sure. Just an FYI for anyone who may not know, but Modoc is one trail we tend to leave a decent number of trees down on, even some bigger ones. Some of us like hopping them, and since Modoc is somewhat technical anyways, it makes sense to leave some for some added challenge. Of course some are so big no one can ride them, or they’re a few feet off the ground, or in a bad spot. But if they’re on the ground, stable, and have a decent approach, they get to stay. Even if some (or a lot) of people may want/need to stop and get off their bike to get across. Post up next time y’all head out there and I’ll try and join you! Me going over one on Modoc that someone cut, even though it didn’t look like it needed it IMO. Dan getting’ it done on a big log out on Keg this winter. Don't be a dummy like Dan. Wear a helmet.
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Post by Ross D on Jun 15, 2013 7:20:56 GMT -5
Yeah, but can 90% of the riders "ride" these logs? Maybe cut a "cut through" and those that want to "log" can do it and those that don't or can't have an option as well? Just a thought..
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Post by dgaddis1 on Jun 15, 2013 18:54:47 GMT -5
There's a 150+ miles of singletrack in the CSRA. Surely a few logs can be left on the six mile modoc for the 10% that like them. We have more than enough beginner-intermediate singletrack that nearly anyone can roll every inch, a little challenge here and there is a good thing.
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Post by jtaylor on Jun 15, 2013 20:59:23 GMT -5
I am a big fan of "alternate lines". I have made some cut-outs in the past ie log at the 1 mile point at Modoc and some at Keg. I also have made several "half-in, half-out" logs at Keg. The downside to the notch-cut is that it takes a lot of time, which is usually in short supply, or it's too hot, or something similar. Also, I ate it on the cut on the 1-mile tree once and never did going over the top. The half-in dilema for me is- if I have a chance to chicken-out, will I ever try it? When I know I do not have a choice, I psych myself up more. How many people would ride the rock if there was an easy bypass? This is a never-ending debate. That's why I became champion of Modoc- "sawyers rules".
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Post by brando on Jun 16, 2013 12:32:49 GMT -5
90% of the people in the CSRA go ride the FATS cuz its fun. I don't recall any big log crossings out there. Why not raise the bar on other trails? Since a small percentage of riders like the big logs let the logs lie on a correspondingly small percentage of trails. I'm new to serious mountain biking so my opinion shouldn't hold much weight when it comes to these long established trails, but for me it's all about the "Flow" and I say to hell with a big log. How bout we put a 2x6 on each side of em and make it possible to jump over em. There is usually enough room where the boards would be an option. I bet 99.5% of riders would ride the boards over em as opposed to crossing them traditionally. I'm up for some trail maintenance but don't work a regular schedule. It's easier for me to get off during the week.
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Post by dsquaredmsquared on Jun 16, 2013 13:10:44 GMT -5
90% of the people in the CSRA go ride the FATS cuz its fun. I don't recall any big log crossings out there. Why not raise the bar on other trails? Since a small percentage of riders like the big logs let the logs lie on a correspondingly small percentage of trails. I'm new to serious mountain biking so my opinion shouldn't hold much weight when it comes to these long established trails, but for me it's all about the "Flow" and I say to hell with a big log. How bout we put a 2x6 on each side of em and make it possible to jump over em. There is usually enough room where the boards would be an option. I bet 99.5% of riders would ride the boards over em as opposed to crossing them traditionally. I'm up for some trail maintenance but don't work a regular schedule. It's easier for me to get off during the week. The US Forest Service owns the land. The US Forest Service doesn't like jumps, ramps, or similar 'trail features'.
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Post by dgaddis1 on Jun 17, 2013 4:58:41 GMT -5
90% of the people in the CSRA go ride the FATS cuz its fun. I don't recall any big log crossings out there. Why not raise the bar on other trails? Since a small percentage of riders like the big logs let the logs lie on a correspondingly small percentage of trails. I'm new to serious mountain biking so my opinion shouldn't hold much weight when it comes to these long established trails, but for me it's all about the "Flow" and I say to hell with a big log. That's exactly what I want too, to raise the bar on the other trails by leaving them a little more difficult. FATS is great when you want an easy fast ride close to town, but ride it enough and you'll get tired of it and start looking for a different experience, which is the other trails shouldn't be kept as groomed/manicured/sanitized as FATS and Bartram. Variety is the spice of life and all that. Sometimes I want a more challenging ride, one that has some features that are not easy, that I can't clear every time and requires some bike handling skills to get through. Being forced o get off ad walk doesn't necessarily mean there's a problem with the trail, it just means there's room for improvement in my/your bike handling abilities. Those rides keep me on my toes and make me improve. That's when I head out to Modoc, or Keg or Mistletoe. Most MTB trails are not like FATS, and not every trail should be.
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Post by dgaddis1 on Jun 17, 2013 5:01:04 GMT -5
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Post by Angela on Jun 17, 2013 12:17:33 GMT -5
The nice thing about this area is that we do have 150 miles of singletrack trails which means we have something for nearly every rider here (which helped us earn the IMBA Bronze Ride Center designation.
Bartram Trail east from Petersburg to West Dam for a total of around 13 miles in/out (stopping at Lake Springs trailhead is great for many newbies since it is just over 9 miles out & back)- novice mountain bikers; we try to keep this side free of all trees across the trail but we get a lot of wind with these storms and it is a challenge for our certified sawyers to keep up.
Bartram Trail west from Petersburg to Wildwood - this is for the next level rider - a little more challenge, a rider (tree down across the trail) here and there, some small water crossings, a bit more climbing and longer ride. (in/out about 18 miles)
Canal Trail - this is an intermediate trail but I (as did many others)actually learned to mountain bike on this trail, it isn't as good for a beginning rider simply because you need to have good control of your bike and be very familiar with gear selection to enjoy this loop - it was 3 miles long but has gained some length with the recent trail reconfiguration.
FATS - Although these trails are intermediate there are few technical challenges along the way. The random switchback, minimal trees across the trail, rock bridge, rock outcroppings, short rock fields, etc. The most difficult issue is here is more climbing (for this area) so fitness becomes a factor for many. A fit novice should be able to confidently ride all of FATS. Although not built as a flow trail it essentially is a flow trail so only minimal trees are left here and there. By degree of difficulty (my opinion only) from easiest to most difficult (mileage parking lot to parking lot) - Skinny (7+), Brown Wave (10+), Great Wall (8+), Big Rock (4+), Tower (4+ loop only - double the mileage to get back to the parking lot) and Deep Step (6).
Boyd Pond - intermediate, this trail has some cool features here and there that will work your bike handling skills (check out that boardwalk at Clown's Corner), also some switchbacks, etc - fun trail and the closest one to Aiken, SC - most trees are kept off these trails, 5 miles of fun!
Hickory Knob State Park - Lakeview Loop (7 miles) - intermediate with a couple of trail features, most trees are kept off these trails. Two additional trails Turkey Ridge (2+)intermediate and Beaver Run (4+) out/back)beginner.
Wine Creek/Turkey Creek - intermediate with a few trail features and a couple of stream crossings, trees just naturally fall all the time and the sawyers get to them when they can. No one wants an inordinate amount of trees on these trails and since more will fall fairly quickly, when the certified sawyers do go out they will typically cut most of the trees off these trails leaving just the only that are clearly riders. (out and back on both trails nearly 25 miles)
Horn Creek - intermediate with few trail features, some nice climbing/downhills and roots. Trees fall on this trail and most are removed when the sawyers can get in to take care of them. If you read about the recent work party you noted they took 40 trees off the trail this past weekend! This is a 6 mile loop.
Long Cane Horse Trail - intermediate with some trail features and riders left intentionally on the trail. This trail flows like FATS in a lot of places, it is just a stellar trail system. It is kept in good riding condition by the mountain bikers in Greenwood some of which are SORBAcsra members. There is between 20 and 30 miles of trail out there.
Modoc - advanced, this trail is only 6 miles long but it boasts 3 stream crossings and has some nice challenges here and there. As an advanced trail there are riders specifically left on the trail. Normally there are not so many that a rider who does not ride the downed trees will get frustrated. Unfortunately we have had a lot going on so there are more down now than normal. (12 miles in/out)
Keg Creek - advanced, it has some challenging features and stream crossings as well as Anaconda-size roots and just some other cool, challenging sections. Again riders are left down on purpose but sometimes there are a lot of extra trees on the ground depending on weather/wind. (8 mile loop)
Mistletoe - advanced, it has some challenging features (stream crossings, etc) that will work the more advanced riders and yes there are riders down on the trail (left on purpose).
Baker Creek - advanced (this trail has its challenges that we are discussing - it is closed all winter so basically neglected - it is 10 miles long) - not currently being maintained.
There are no paid members of SORBAcsra we are all simply volunteers trying to make the best of this amazing grouping of 150 miles of singletrack. We have nearly 200 members but less than 10% at any given time come out to work and help maintain the trails. It is a lot of work to keep 150 miles of trail maintained, fortunately we have some seriously dedicated volunteers.
What we really need are more people willing to step up and become members (even if they can't help with the trail work for some reason), we still have to pay for and maintain the equipment. We should easily be a 250 member chapter with the number of riders in the area, would love to see us grow to support these great trails!
I've probably missed something zipping through this but I know we'll have some people jump in to set it right if I have! Happy trails!
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Post by brando on Jun 18, 2013 2:14:32 GMT -5
Ok ok I see all of you Loggers point of view. I can't wait till my skills advance enough to ride Modoc w/o ever getting off my bike.
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Post by dgaddis1 on Jun 18, 2013 6:50:00 GMT -5
Ok ok I see all of you Loggers point of view. I can't wait till my skills advance enough to ride Modoc w/o ever getting off my bike. I've never ridden it all without putting a foot down at least once! There's a few spots that get me: -going out away from Hwy 23, the first creek crossing. Down the rock, across the rocky creek bed, then up that steep, narrow, rooty chute, hardly ever make that little climb. -The switchback near the bridge to no where, going up it. I've gotten better there and make it more often than not now, but it still sometimes gives me fits, there's a root placed exactly where you wish it wasn't. When I do make it I usuall end up in some sort of pivoting wheelie to get the front wheel past the root without losing too much momentum. You can see the roots here: -And there's two ditches that are tough when riding back towards the trailhead. One has some rocks at the bottom, then the trail takes a hard left and gets real steep, and again there's some roots. Rarely make that one, can't seem to carry enough momentum and make the turn at the same time. And going up this is sometimes tough depending on the trail coditions.
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Post by Angela on Jun 18, 2013 6:50:55 GMT -5
And just so you know some of us won't ever be riding all those trees at Modoc. I am pretty much maxed out at riders that are less than 8 inches in diameter (and yes I realize any of those guys commenting would be happy to show me how to ride the bigger ones : )- and that doesn't keep me from enjoying Modoc or any of the other trails since trees (and some of them are chest high) just keep falling in the forest!
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Post by brianW on Jun 18, 2013 15:50:56 GMT -5
I find it funny that people will complain about a log but will happily walk the first creek crossing, jaws, or other trail features. I cannot ride all the logs but do not mind seeing them out there for the more skilled riders to ride and me to attempt. Only rule I know for sure is, the sawyers decide what to cut and what to leave behind.
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Post by Mark Y. on Jun 18, 2013 21:44:54 GMT -5
90% of the people in the CSRA go ride the FATS cuz its fun. I don't recall any big log crossings out there. Why not raise the bar on other trails? Since a small percentage of riders like the big logs let the logs lie on a correspondingly small percentage of trails. I'm new to serious mountain biking so my opinion shouldn't hold much weight when it comes to these long established trails, but for me it's all about the "Flow" and I say to hell with a big log. That's exactly what I want too, to raise the bar on the other trails by leaving them a little more difficult. FATS is great when you want an easy fast ride close to town, but ride it enough and you'll get tired of it and start looking for a different experience, which is the other trails shouldn't be kept as groomed/manicured/sanitized as FATS and Bartram. Variety is the spice of life and all that. Sometimes I want a more challenging ride, one that has some features that are not easy, that I can't clear every time and requires some bike handling skills to get through. Being forced o get off ad walk doesn't necessarily mean there's a problem with the trail, it just means there's room for improvement in my/your bike handling abilities. Those rides keep me on my toes and make me improve. That's when I head out to Modoc, or Keg or Mistletoe. Most MTB trails are not like FATS, and not every trail should be. I see a similar trend in MTB'ing that happened in sailing locally. The Augusta Sailing Club was founded in the 50's with a prime purpose of competitive sailing in dinghys / board boats. It has evolved into a more recreation based mentality with the numbers cruising in displacement boats dramatically increasing over the past 30 or so years, and the numbers competing in a serious way falling dramatically. Biking seems to be the same way, a large increase in recreational cyclists diluting the percentage of the serious rider competing against the trail. Maybe FATS and Bartram have spoiled people and set the bar lower.
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Post by dgaddis1 on Jun 18, 2013 22:53:55 GMT -5
Maybe FATS and Bartram have spoiled people and set the bar lower. The problem is there are a lot of riders who only ride Bartram and FATS, and in their mind, that's what MTBing is. But it's so much more than that, every trail has it's own unique flavor, there's a lot of different ways to have fun on a MTB. FATS is awesome, I just don't want to see every trail turning into it. A man can only eat so many green M&M's before he says I WANT A RED ONE!!
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Post by Angela on Jun 19, 2013 6:49:48 GMT -5
And don't forget the most important thing, as much as you love riding the rocks, the roots, the sick drops and everything else not everyone aspires to be Hans Rey (or even close). Some people have a whole different experience in mind when they come out to ride. Some are runners with blown out knees that have simply found a new exercise and are perfectly happy on a trail that will provide that. There is no "right" way to mountain bike you aren't going to force riders to want something they don't (but by all means encourage them if they show interest as we do when we have skills clinics or skill building opportunities). They sure are building a lot of flow trail out there across the country and they are because the demand is there. It's not a bad thing, people enjoying themselves in the woods and getting exercise - I'm all for it. Most of the new trails have alternate lines to provide extra challenge to those who desire it and some of the new riders will go on to want the challenge of bigger rocks, bigger logs, bigger drops but many will be content to just enjoy a ride the woods. You have the pioneers in most sports that the majority of people just looked at and scratched their heads or recoiled in horror in the beginning but as time goes on, equipment gets less expensive (or they actually develop equipment and it gains widespread acceptance. It's having that larger group wade in that often increases the opportunities, like it or not. More trails are being built because more people are taking up the sport. We have more choices in equipment because more people are taking up the sport. Bike builders would go out of business if their only customers were that top 10%. We ride at night not because we want that challenge but simply because it extends our riding season to year round. We have encouraged and brought a lot of others into night riding, some still are and others found it wasn't for them. It's all good - people on bikes - whatever that means> for transportation, on the roads, on the Greeneway, on the trails (from Bartram to Lunatic Fringe), racing, freeriding, trials, endurance events and the list goes on and on - just get on your bike and ride and have the time of your life!
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Post by beckyl on Jun 19, 2013 7:19:54 GMT -5
Some are runners with blown out knees that have simply found a new exercise and are perfectly happy on a trail that will provide that. There is no "right" way to mountain bike you aren't going to force riders to want something they don't (but by all means encourage them if they show interest as we do when we have skills clinics or skill building opportunities)......... We ride at night not because we want that challenge but simply because it extends our riding season to year round. We have encouraged and brought a lot of others into night riding, some still are and others found it wasn't for them. It's all good - people on bikes - whatever that means> for transportation, on the roads, on the Greeneway, on the trails (from Bartram to Lunatic Fringe), racing, freeriding, trials, endurance events and the list goes on and on - just get on your bike and ride and have the time of your life! Thanks Angela. Well said. It takes all kinds to make the world go around.
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