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Signs
Dec 21, 2012 9:25:06 GMT -5
Post by Angela on Dec 21, 2012 9:25:06 GMT -5
Just really liked this sign -
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Signs
Dec 21, 2012 12:29:59 GMT -5
Post by seenvic on Dec 21, 2012 12:29:59 GMT -5
Something about a pot n kettle comes to mind.
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Signs
Dec 21, 2012 22:43:14 GMT -5
Post by Angela on Dec 21, 2012 22:43:14 GMT -5
Not sure of your point but we dont have any truly advanced trails (like the one desribed on the sign) in our area. All of our trails can be ridden by intermediate level riders and agile novice riders as well. It doesnt bother me at all to get off and walk parts of certain trails that I dont like to ride. On some of the trails I will ride a feature sometimes and other times I don't (Jaws for instance).
Only thing that has ever been an issue, that I can recall, is that some downed trees fall in such a way as to allow riders to easily bypass the downed tree and the resulting trail damage generally will result in the tree being removed if if the bypass cannot be effectively blocked.
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Signs
Dec 21, 2012 23:06:24 GMT -5
Post by seenvic on Dec 21, 2012 23:06:24 GMT -5
Around here the accepted practice is to ride around anything difficult. which is the problem this sign is trying to correct.
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Signs
Dec 21, 2012 23:18:09 GMT -5
Post by Angela on Dec 21, 2012 23:18:09 GMT -5
Not sure how accepted it is but it definitely is a problem. Never has bothered me to get off and walk something I can't or don't feel comfortable riding ...over time Ive learned to ride more and more of the challenging sections. Keep the singletrack single!
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Signs
Dec 22, 2012 9:14:04 GMT -5
Post by seenvic on Dec 22, 2012 9:14:04 GMT -5
You keep responding like I am talking about you personally.
I am talking about the culture of riders around here and I think our club has helped cultivate this culture. The sign (to me) represents a different approach in a different locale attempt to influence the culture of their local riders.
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Signs
Dec 22, 2012 10:08:10 GMT -5
Post by Angela on Dec 22, 2012 10:08:10 GMT -5
Point taken and you are correct but the injection of the idiom (the pot calling the kettle black means a person is guilty of what they are accusing someone else of) confused me! Not sure I agree with that (that we have contributed) - we have some trails that are by nature more rugged with some technical features (not many but some) - Keg, Mistletoe, and Modoc and I think for the most part everyone is happy to have those trails that are at the higher end of intermediate in the area for riders to challenge themselves a little more. We leave more riders out on the outlying trails - the ones that are more classic singletrack and try to keep them maintained so people will ride them when the nettles and foliage get dense. Really only deal with serious issues that could threaten the trail (erosion, etc) and honestly haven't had the time for some of the things that need to be done there (missing bridge on Wine that is (or was) a hike-a-bike without the bridge). On what I will call our gateway trails Bartram and FATS they get a whole lot of riders new to the sport who don't know understand why they shouldn't ride the trails when they are wet, who think it is fun to ride fast and skid through the corners or ride around every rock or root they come to .....these are a whole other challenge and to keep them in good condition just due to the sheer numbers takes much more work. Many of those new riders will become good mountain bikers and will "get it" in time and some will even learn to love our classic singletrack trails! I personally think overall we do pretty good and your vision at the start and what you have put on the ground is some really great stuff. Would it be great to have a trail somewhere nearby that a sign like that would be appropriate to post - absolutely but we don't at this point!
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Signs
Dec 22, 2012 12:15:59 GMT -5
Post by seenvic on Dec 22, 2012 12:15:59 GMT -5
FATS was supposed to be this trail for us. You act like you don't understand this. Do you think we spent 14ish years of our lives to build 35 miles of gateway trail? When we started on FATS, we had a slew of beginner trails in this area. The last thing we needed was 35 more miles of them.
Then a large number of new riders showed up to ride what we built.
And instead of holding its ground and trying to educate them, SORBA CSRA capitulated and the trails are maintained for the lowest skill level.
Do you really think the people who spent their time building FATS had this in mind? If so, you are mistaken. I feel strongly that FATS is now grouped with Bartrams as a gateway trail is just a shame.
And this occurring is the opposite stance the riders who put up that sign are taking.
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Signs
Dec 22, 2012 17:53:23 GMT -5
Post by Angela on Dec 22, 2012 17:53:23 GMT -5
Maybe I have misused the term gateway trail (honestly have never heard an official definition) but based on all the dialogue I thought a gateway trail is a trail that introduces people to the sport of mountain biking (both FATS and Bartram do this although those beginning riders are usually very different). A gateway trail isn't necessarily a beginner's trail although it can be - it simply is a trail that due to the way it is built and its proximity to the population of people, people flock to it and are introduced to our sport.
I think you are right, I must have misunderstood. I've been right here during the discussions, the volunteering, the building and now the maturing of FATS. I have ridden each of these loops while the dirt on the tread was freshly turned. To me the FATS was harder than some of our outlying trails but only because of the climbing not because of any of the features that were on the trail. As Russell recently mentioned, she is aging well.
The trail is more difficult now than it was in the beginning. The tread has narrowed down to tighter single-track now, the roots are much more exposed, some additional rock has been exposed (although dirt shifting on some of the rock gardens has actually softened up those areas). The FATS that I knew when it was first built would not have had the sign up above posted at the trailhead.
The maintenance that is done on the trail is to keep erosion to a minimum and maintain the integrity of the trail. No features built into this trail have been removed that I am aware of, in fact we've had to add to a couple of features to keep riders from creating bypass trails. There is no comparison between FATS and Bartram - I shouldn't have even mentioned them in the same sentence but both of them have brought an awful lot of people into the sport.
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Signs
Dec 22, 2012 19:23:29 GMT -5
Post by Mark Y. on Dec 22, 2012 19:23:29 GMT -5
Just for my own edification Bill; what from your do you think has or has not been done that has changed FATS from your original vision?
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