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Post by Angela on Dec 17, 2010 12:38:28 GMT -5
Not trying to start any additional controversy just stating an opinion The primary goal of the majority of the land managers (when discussing recreational trails) is to improve access into the forests for a variety of users. Sometimes these trails are hiking only, biking only, horses only (Oak Mountain is one trail system in Birmingham, AL that has trails designated for particular uses) - most of our trails are hiking/biking only trails. That said, it is my opinion when the trail is being designed forethought should go in to having the trail be as user friendly as is practical given the time and money commitments (without going crazy with all the possibilities). It is at that point that a neat trail feature that can provide an ultra cool technical challenge for advanced riders can be incorporated - it is also at that point that consideration should be given to a nice sustainable, flowing bypass to that feature. These types of things are incorporated into a lot of trail systems (Blanket's Creek near Woodstock, GA has done a great job with this) very successfully. It allows a dual purpose at that point in the trail and they seem to work really well and help eliminate user conflict. Not every rider out there has the same goals. Some truly want to improve their technical skills and will constantly look for challenges to improve those skills. Others simply want to ride through the woods and enjoy the scenery and get some exercise. Over time some of the casual riders will get the fever and will want the challenge of learning the technical skills but some never will. Over time some of the more technically advanced riders may become more casual riders due to injury or age. This all falls under different strokes for different folks. One isn't better than the other, just different! Just some food for thought and just an opinion.
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Post by brianW on Dec 17, 2010 15:08:45 GMT -5
example of a trail feature with bypass is on the new section of Bartram between Pollard's and Wildwood. There is a nice rock to ride over or bypass it.
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Post by azdrawdy on Dec 17, 2010 21:55:17 GMT -5
example of a trail feature with bypass is on the new section of Bartram between Pollard's and Wildwood. There is a nice rock to ride over or bypass it. Nice e.g. BW. Very nice. I have stopped here several times to show/explain this feature to many. It surprises me that so many are skeered of the rock feature. Thx, MD
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Post by yetichick on Dec 18, 2010 9:25:34 GMT -5
There are several technical trail features that I am still working on mastering. I worry that someone is going to come along and "dumb down" that obstacle by removing a root or rock. I would rather see permission for an alternate route to protect the technical feature than have it dumbed down by uneducated riders. I have ridden both Blankets Creek and Ft. Yargo, and like the way they have incorporated "alternate routes" into their trail designs.
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Post by Mark Y on Dec 18, 2010 9:41:21 GMT -5
I think when the feature can be a big challenge that is a valid option as long as it is designed in with consideration to maintaining the long term integrity of the tread. However, I don't think people should create ridearounds just because they don't want mud splashed on their shiny new bike or just don't feel comfortable negotiating minor features like the one in question on Skinny. The log on Keg that I misjudged and lost a lot of skin on now has a ridearound. I cursed that thing and threatened to take a chainsaw to it, but judging from its appearance, that log had been there a good while. I just learned to ride it. Clearly, we have a lot of people on the trails now that just want all of the trails to be an Old Bartram. They are either uneducated or selfish; I prefer to think uneducated.
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Post by Apollo on Dec 18, 2010 11:57:44 GMT -5
^and selfish, trust me there are some people out there that feel entitled and truly believe the trail was built for them and should be to their uninspired specifications... blah
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Post by Angela on Dec 18, 2010 17:07:56 GMT -5
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Post by brianW on Dec 19, 2010 7:30:06 GMT -5
Hans Rey mentioned at the summit after riding FATS that it was the most flowing trail he was ridden in the US.
I never rode a trail made for mt bikes 'til i rode FATS. There is a big difference. Most of the singletrack (really hiking trails) i rode was similiar to Keg or Mistletoe but with more roots, rocks and steeper sections or logging/skidder roads which could get very muddy.
thanks for sharing the article
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Post by Angela on Dec 19, 2010 9:48:20 GMT -5
In my opinion we are so fortunate to nearly have it all here - right in our backyard - somewhere around 150 miles of singletrack! We have a trail that was designed primarily for beginners in the Bartram Lake Trail that is still a lot of fun for an experienced rider who wants to pedal hard and fast and now the new part of the trail provides a bit more challenge so 47 miles of solid pedaling! FATS is an amazing flow trail, literally any mountain biker (who is relatively fit aerobically) from beginner to advanced can have a blast. We have a whole inventory of other great intermediate trails in the area - some pushing to the upper level of intermediate (Keg and Modoc) that are great fun. We have a pump track over in North Augusta. To me the only thing that is missing from a mountain biking perspective - the only thing I would add since we already have so many miles of trail to maintain - would be a skills area like at Blanket's Creek - it is awesome!!! And a truly advanced trail. If we had those two missing things.............WOW
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Post by wooglin on Dec 19, 2010 12:22:10 GMT -5
From Angela's link to Outside Mag:
Good god. Shoot me now. This is the MTB equivalent of suburban sprawl.
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Post by Angela on Dec 19, 2010 13:21:27 GMT -5
Is it or is it an opportunity to expand participation in the sport and thereby increase the voice?
There are positives and negatives in every action ..........will the positives outweigh the negatives? It seems so at first glance...
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Post by wooglin on Dec 19, 2010 13:57:31 GMT -5
Valid point. Unless the voice you increase advocates loudest for "what is essentially mountain biking's answer to the blue run". Which from your own post is exactly what is happening.
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Post by Angela on Dec 19, 2010 14:25:13 GMT -5
I can't speak to other parts of the country so not sure but for here not at all.................when I started mountain biking 10+ years ago there was no Hickory Knob, Bartram Lake Trail or FATS - all the trails were just varying degrees of intermediate - they'd been around for a long time - some of them for decades (except Baker's Creek and maybe the Canal MTB Trail). Our slight milder terrain contributes to that, the real mountains naturally toughen up a trail - you don't have to try to add technical features.
The only trail intended to be easier was the original Bartram Lake Trail and that was what the COE wanted at that time and it has been a great addition to our trail system - prior to that I think Wine was the most beginner friendly.
FATS was not built to be a flow trail - that is a fairly newly coined term - it was simply designed to be a fun, well-built, sustainable trail over some flowing hills.
Now with all this inventory of trail we can get a lot of folks coming into the area to ride, introduce a lot of new folks to the sport, etc - some of them will decide it isn't for them and move on to other sports and some of them will evolve and look for greater challenges for themselves.
We definitely don't need more trail on the ground but a great advanced trail would be to me a welcome addition to our trail systems. I can ride everything out at FATS except some of the larger trees that go down and I consider myself an intermediate rider below the middle range. Would love to be challenged out on a well built advanced trail in our area. The two trails I am most likely to dismount while riding are Keg and Modoc.
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Post by kconner on Dec 19, 2010 18:20:58 GMT -5
While I am fairly new to the sport and havn't tried anything I would consider "technical", I would like to see some trails with some technical areas so that I am able to progress in my skills. While I thoroughly enjoy every ride I take, no matter which trail I happen to be riding (it's just nice to get outside ) something "different" would be nice. It's a shame that some of the "technical" features of the FATS trails have been ridden around to the point that the technical line has "disappeared" (I know, it may not have disappeared, but I havn't been around long enough to know where a lot of them are). While I do enjoy a nice "cruise" through the woods, I would love to see more technical features to mix it up a bit, even if a second/alternate line has to be incorporated for those who don't want to try it. I would think it would be neat to have something like you see at some ski resorts (the "terrain parks") where you can have nothing but technical features to play on....something like the pump track but on a larger scale On a side note, I'm going to be in Cleveland, OH next week and will be checking out Ray's MTB with a buddy from the D.C. area, and was wondering if anybody local has been there....this will be my first time getting to really play with some technical stuff....VERY EXCITED!!!
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Post by dgaddis1 on Dec 20, 2010 7:20:21 GMT -5
kconner - you want to ride some tech? Come do the Snake Creek Gap Time Trials! It doesn't get much more technical than that. There's a few of us from the CSRA going. snake.nwgasorba.org/From the Jan '08 race. See the rocks in the background? That's the trail. And that's one of the smoother sections.
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Post by kconner on Dec 20, 2010 8:52:46 GMT -5
kconner - you want to ride some tech? Come do the Snake Creek Gap Time Trials! It doesn't get much more technical than that. There's a few of us from the CSRA going. snake.nwgasorba.org/From the Jan '08 race. See the rocks in the background? That's the trail. And that's one of the smoother sections. I would love to work up to something like that! I'm still fairly new to the sport, so I'm going to gradually expand my skills....if I get hurt riding my bike, I can't work, which means I can no longer afford to ride, so it's bad no matter how you look at it That's why I would like a "skills park" to go play in, or at least more technical features on our trails.....
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Post by brianW on Dec 20, 2010 12:37:37 GMT -5
love that shot Dustin. Trail looks similar to New England single track.
When ACOE marks/bids out the loop below the dam maybe this could be looked into. technical sections with ride a rounds.
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