Feb 14th

[ted]

Went to the bottom of Great Wall at the end of 661A, turned left heading CCW. Did some more drain cleaning up to the point of the bricks.
Used 5 of the 10 bricks to armor the turn then shaved down the duff from the lower side of the drain. Where the brick are placed, the lower side of that had about 8 -10 inches of organic matter blocking the drain.
This section should no longer be an issue. There may need to be one brick placed at each end of the section at a later point depending on how well the water runs off from now on.

Would anyone be interested in a Drain Cleaning clinic at the next workparty?
I'm just not convinced the drains are being cleared enough and I don't think I can be convinced otherwise. BTW I don't think I overdo it either.
They need to be cleaned not just at the lowest point of the drain, but all the leaves, pinestraw and other built up matter on the top, sides, and low spots.
Imagine making a pie slice shape instead of a strip of bacon.

Here's a page again from IMBA Trail Solutionsbook:



Most of the drain cleaning has been on the lower part and not the outslope and other parts of the drain. It only takes an extra minute to thouroughly clean the drain from top to bottom and side to side and it will last many more years without having to have it redone the next year.

[ted]

No one has any comments. Hard to believe?

[seenvic]

I think your message would be more effective in person.

Folks don't like to be told they aren't volunteering correctly. But that said, I think most volunteers would like to be as effective as possible.

I have no doubt that your method is high quality and I do clean the drains in a similar fashion and try to get the folks with me to do the same.

I see the drains cleaned by some and they are less effective than the way you are doing it.

I think your message is 100% spot on, but would be better delivered in person, which is what you are offering to do. I'd say that is a good move, but could have been done simply by showing up at the next gathering of workers. You go about your business, observe others, and pretty early in the day say "check this out".....and proceed to show them how to do it the right way.

Or I could be wrong.

But at the end of the day, I'd love to see everyone adopt a drain cleaning method closer to yours. And I hope what you are offering to do happens, soon.

If for no other reason than......Getting large numbers of workers into the woods is very good for morale. Just seeing the numbers of people willing to work is motivating. But at the end of the day, if there are two people working and they cover a mile of drains, it feels like time well spent. But if they are 10 people working, and they cover 5 miles of drains, it feels like time better spent.

[Mark Y]

I'm not sure where people are falling short Ted, but it seems to me that if you make a CLEAR path for the entire body of water to get to a lower place that should suffice. In other words, if you move the puddle to a lower section that is off the trail, that should suffice without worrying about if the new puddle has some place to go. Am I wrong headed in that thought?

[dgaddis1]

Tod's point is that water needs to be able to drain off a larger section of the trail. Let some of the water get off before it reaches the bottom of the dip.

[ted]

Yeah, I'm not trying to discourage anyone and not telling anyone they are doing it wrong and humbly apologize if any offense has been taken. I'm just trying to get a more effective result out of everyone's time. In fact, I'd rather have someone go out and clean drains with their feet than nothing at all.
However, knowing the people that are currently active and their personalities, I'd assume they'd be like myself and want to do the best job possible.
I did it incomplete for a few years until a professional trail builder showed me the light. I'm just trying to pass on the knowledge without offending people.
I agree it's best to do something in person, however, my schedule doesn't coincide with everyones and I thought it best to utilize the forum to educate people.
I believe on the MTB Patrol patch it says Assist, Educate, Inform. It doesn't say it has to be in person. Just trying to do my part for the good of the whole.
I'm not a very political person when it comes to pleasing everyone, so excuse me if I offend.
Thanks for keeping me in check BV. Love ya man!

[JIMMYC]

I'm guilty of "small ditch" cutting, mainly because there was an existing mud puddle i was trying to drain and i just didn't have the right tool with me.
Todd you have the best of intentions and you back it up with doing the work. I took no offense to your post, after all this suppose to be an arena of ideas.

[brianW]

I am guilty also. However I did remember you posting how you do it and i will conform.

[ted]

Thanks y'all.
I'm trying to be non-offensive, which is hard sometimes. I really appreciate everyone openness, receptiveness, and willingness (and other esses) to participate in these work parties.
This is how you earn (not god given) the right and appreciation of the trail.
Consumption cannot be sustained without production.

[imnav8r]

Quote "Consumption cannot be sustained without production. "

Amen to that brother!