Help: Uphill with roots...

[chaosx44]

...such as the first hill (and a few others) on even days at the canal track...what is the technique to get to the top. About halfway up I end up with my front tire off the ground and lose it and end up walking the rest. Really frustrating. Ive tried coming forward on the seat but maybe not far enough Should I avoid standing to get up it? Your words of wisdom are much appreciated.

[txr]

I am no Guru on technique by any means but here is my two cents. You seem to have part of the equation figured out. Getting forward on the saddle gets more weight forward and on the front wheel. Also add to that bending (crouching) over or at least towards the frint wheel, again to get the front wheel weighted. Next I often, in this position twist the grips towards me which almost feels like pulling me up the hill but helps me to keep pressure down on the front side. You have to be carefull as to how much weight you move forward as you do not want to unweight the rear too much and loose traction on that end defeating everything. I ride a hardtail so this is what I do and it can be different on a full suspension. Just experiment some. If all else fails go visit a local shop and talk about a different tire for the rear that will hook up better. Or if you are riding a full suspension talk to them about the best setup for your rear shock (and front shock for that matter). Anyways thats my .....ok a few more than two cents.....but thats what I can offer

Tom

WOW...I just read my reply and well....thats more for just regular uphills So anyways....my advice may not be exactly what you were looking for.....sorry for confusion

[JIMMYC]

It's about timing, speed and balence. Once you get the front wheel over side your weight forward in squatted position off the seat and kind of hop the back end forward and over. if you rely just on peddling you will spin out.

[bgredjeep]

I ride singlespeed so i just hit the hill with a little speed and power up the rest. As for where you need your weight it depends on the bike setup.

When I ride my Trek I have to climb with my weight pretty far forward to keep the front down. On my Haro 29er the front tends to stay planted well so I have to keep my weight pretty much in the middle or back a little to keep from spinning the rear tire.

I would suggest a gear or 2 higher than you have been trying and really attack the hill rather than gearing down and trying to spin up the hill.

[Mark Y]

Funny someone brought this up. I can't get up that ( not the first one but the one about half way through) canal hill either; I either do a wheelie or spin out. I suspect I'm not hitting it with enough initial momentum, but since the roots are at a bit of an angle too much mo could lead to a painful, quick stop.

[bgredjeep]

If you are talking about the one by the river (CCW) I do make sure to hop the front wheel over the first of those roots (there are a couple big ones). I do tend to carry a lot of momentum when I ride so that helps when I get there as well.

[ted]

What gear combination do you use?
Too easy and the front end will lift up, too hard and you'll bog down.
I'd suggest middle ring and 2-3 cogs down from the biggest in the rear.
Tires and suspension have little to do with it if you have the speed and gear selection correct.
I'm able to climb that particular hill on my cross bike with slick 700x32c Continental commuter tires.
Not braggin' just sayin'.
Hope this helps.

[chaosx44]

Yalls time in replying is much appreciated! I think the suggestions of a different gear combo may be the ticket. I tend to go at them with some speed but probably too easy a gear. Also, could my tire pressure be contributing to the problem? Sometimes I feel like the psi is too high. I was thinking of letting a little out.

[imnav8r]

There's an interesting article in the latest issue of Mountain Bike Action magazine about tire pressure. The writer suggested to a friend an experiment whereby he reduces the air pressure by two pounds and spend a week riding his bike with the new pressure to see how it rode. He further suggests repeating this process each week until his bike began to feel mushy and/or he started getting pinch flats. There may be some merit to this excercise as he found out that he, too, had too much air in his tires and by letting some out, his bike performed better over rocks and roots and as a result, he rode better.

The exact amount of air pressure depends upon many variables some of which include tire size, rider weight, bike setup...etc. Most folks I've asked run around 32 - 36 lbs of air in a 26x2.1 tire. Others run higher amounts enough to make me wonder why. Yet, if you stop by the bike shop and squeeze a few tires on mountain bikes, they feel hard as bricks. Maybe they go by that.

I think largely it comes down to a personal preference and what may be just right for one person, may not be quite right for another. As for me, I run my tires at ~ 34 psi on the front and 36 psi on the rear. More on the rear because my big butt is more over the rear wheel than the front.

When I have them that way, I notice a lot of roots and rocks that used to have a bump or jolt to them, no longer have that effect. The bike feels more controllable even when the roots and rocks are slippery. When I've had too much air in the tires, it felt like I was bouncing off roots and rocks rather than rolling over them. And I guess that is what you'll have to experiment with to find the right pressure for your tires. Just don't overdo it with too little or too much air as both will feel like crap.

It's not that difficult...just take a small air pump with you on your next ride. Air up your tires until they feel firm with a little bit of give when you squeeze them. Then go ride for a mile or so over a rooty section and concentrate on how your bike feels over the roots.

Then let out a little more air until you feel just a little bit more give when you squeeze the tires. Then ride back over that same section. See if you notice any difference. If not, let a little more air out and try it again. If you let too much out, you can always add a little more back in until you get it right. It won't take long until you get the "feel" for it.

There's a great little rooty section on Skinny Loop at FATS to try this on. It's flat...no hill...so you won't have to worry about riding over a root while climbing. Once you get your bike to feel better without all the bouncing, then use a tire pressure gauge to see what the pressure is. If you don't have an accurate one, stop by the bike shop and let them measure it for you after your ride. Then remember what it is so you can duplicate it later if your tires loose pressure or you have to reinflate after a flat.

Sorry for the lengthy response, but maybe the explanation will help. And as for that canal climb, that's mostly a technique thing. You're on the right track in analyzing what could be holding you back. So try to get your air pressure set on your tires, and give it another whirl. Another good tip is to invite an experienced rider like some of the ones who've replied to your post to go with you and show you how they do it. However, if one of them says "Hey watch this!"...get your camera out!

Be safe!

[brianW]

I found that at the canal it really depends on how dry it is.

[ted]

John,
I'm gonna one up you on the over-answer with this:

Note the "ride light" part.

I got it from here:
www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html

Tire pressure Recommendations
Most tires have a "maximum" pressure, or a recommended pressure range marked on the side of the tire. These pressure ratings are established by the tire manufacturers after consultation with the legal and marketing departments.
The legal department wants the number kept conservatively low, in case the tire gets mounted on a defective or otherwise loose fitting rim. They commonly shoot for half of the real blow-off pressure.

The marketing department wants the number high, because many tire purchasers make the (unreliable) assumption that the higher the pressure rating, the better the quality of the tire.

Newbies often take these arbitrary ratings as if they had some scientific basis. While you'll rarely get in trouble with this approach, you will usually not be getting the best possible performance with this rote approach.

Savvy cyclists experiment with different pressures, and often even vary the pressure for different surface conditions.

Optimal pressure for any given tire will depend on the load it is being asked to support. Thus, a heavier rider needs a higher pressure than a lighter rider, for identical tires.

Since most bicycles have substantially more weight on the rear wheel than on the front, the rear tire should almost always be inflated to a higher pressure than the front, typically by about 10%.

Rough surfaces generally call for a reduction in pressure to improve ride comfort and traction, but there is a risk of pinch flats if you go too far.

Rider skill also enters into this: more experienced cyclists learn to "get light" for a fraction of a second while going over rough patches; newbies tend to sit harder on the saddle, increasing the risk of pinch flats.



Take that!!!

[dgaddis1]

I weight in about 160lbs. With tubes, I ran a little over 30psi front and rear. Now that I've converted to tubeless, I run closer to 25psi.

Lower pressure lets the tire conform the trail better. More traction for cornering, braking, and accelerating, and a smoother ride. It'll even roll faster. I've heard of some people running less than 20psi, but I don't like the way the tires feel at that pressure.

Check this out: www.schwalbetires.com/tech_info

[dgaddis1]

Back to the roots problem....just keep at it, sounds like you're close.

You want enough weight forward to keep the front end down, but you always want enough weight on the rear wheel to maintain traction.

And Brian N. is right about attacking the hills. When you see one coming, don't start gearing down before you get there. Stand up and power ahead as hard as you can. You get to the top easier, faster, and ultimately use less energy doing so.

Picking the front tire up over the bigger roots helps too.

[chaosx44]

I figured that might be part of the problem....i am definately over-inflated. Close to 50 I think. I definately bounce when I hit those roots which in turn causes the front to come off the ground. Thanks for confirming my suspicions! I only got my new bike about two weeks ago so still tweaking it.

[Mark Y]

Oct 5, 2009 17:46:35 GMT -5 dgaddis1 said:

And Brian N. is right about attacking the hills. When you see one coming, don't start gearing down before you get there. Stand up and power ahead as hard as you can. You get to the top easier, faster, and ultimately use less energy doing so.

I overheard someone coaching a novice one day saying "speed is your friend" on a mountan bike. So true, but so hard to embrace when you are trying to keep from skinning your arse! ;D

[Mark Y]

Oct 5, 2009 12:33:06 GMT -5 bgredjeep said:

If you are talking about the one by the river (CCW) I do make sure to hop the front wheel over the first of those roots (there are a couple big ones). I do tend to carry a lot of momentum when I ride so that helps when I get there as well.

I'm talking about the ravine going CW; It is right before or after the one that has the cut log at the top.

[bgredjeep]

Thinking of a few different spots based on that. Either way its all the same concept.

I need to get back out. Between vacation, rain, and other obligations I haven't been out in about a month.

[lionel]

Thanks for the original question, and all the replies. Made me realize I've probably been running my tires with way too much pressure.

[Mark Y]

Oct 5, 2009 12:33:06 GMT -5 bgredjeep said:

If you are talking about the one by the river (CCW) I do make sure to hop the front wheel over the first of those roots (there are a couple big ones). I do tend to carry a lot of momentum when I ride so that helps when I get there as well.

What I've learned since this first post is to not be tentative. That is a sure way to lose momentum and screw up. A couple of weeks ago I rode the same hill w/roots we are talking about with a chainsaw in a backpack. I just hit it with speed and trusted the hardware under me to roll through it. No probs at all. I have to get back over there and do the first ccw hill a few times to figure out the right gear to get the speed and still have the power to finish without spinout.